Moonlightaholics

SirenSong wrote: But doesn't that keeping Josh as a fall-back position kind of go against how everyone sees Beth too? What I mean is that time and again, people describe Beth as being so gutsy ans such a strong woman, but if you're saying that she kept Josh around because she didn't want to be alone, that greatly diminishes that ballsy woman everyone wants to picture her as being.

People make mistakes. Things happen. If BC or AD had happened as stand alone, I could see a bit of defense for her. But when you compound her behavior in both episodes, I can't forgive or condone what she did. As I said, to me it made her unlikable. And considering she was supposed to be the heroine of the story and someone that the female audience could experience the story through, to me and for me, the writers missed the mark...big time.

Oh and Red, don't get me started on character development in later episodes.

Thanks for not hurling the cutlery in my direction, ladies.

When I see Beth as independent and strong, I see a woman who pointed a gun at a guy and shot him in the neck. I see a woman who offered herself up to a dying vampire, trusting that he wouldn't kill her. I see a woman who wants answers and doesn't let someone tell her she can't get them because it might be dangerous. I also see a woman who maybe didn't cheat physically on her boyfriend, but certainly emotionally and experienced a healthy dose of confusion over her feelings for both men.

To me, that makes her human.

SirenSong wrote:

redwinter101 wrote:One more thing on Beth not cutting Josh loose, I do think there was an element of not wanting to end up with no-one. She knew the chances of getting something long-term with Mick were shaky, no matter how much she wanted him and if she'd ended things with Josh, there was a real chance she would have been alone.

That really is a harsh thing for her to have done - kept him around as her fallback position - but I also think, again, that it's a very plausible scenario and I do think it was brave of the writers not to make her pure as the driven snow.

And coco, we can share our fury once we get to those episodes .

Red

But doesn't that keeping Josh as a fall-back position kind of go against how everyone sees Beth too? What I mean is that time and again, people describe Beth as being so gutsy ans such a strong woman, but if you're saying that she kept Josh around because she didn't want to be alone, that greatly diminishes that ballsy woman everyone wants to picture her as being.

People make mistakes. Things happen. If BC or AD had happened as stand alone, I could see a bit of defense for her. But when you compound her behavior in both episodes, I can't forgive or condone what she did. As I said, to me it made her unlikable. And considering she was supposed to be the heroine of the story and someone that the female audience could experience the story through, to me and for me, the writers missed the mark...big time.

Oh and Red, don't get me started on character development in later episodes.

Thanks for not hurling the cutlery in my direction, ladies.

I can only speak for myself here but I didn't take a dislike to Beth after AD or BC. Beth was the human focus of the ML story for me and I still related to her through everything she did (good or bad). Beth was reacting to things as a human mixed up in a vamp world and it worked for me.

PNWgal wrote:

SirenSong wrote: But doesn't that keeping Josh as a fall-back position kind of go against how everyone sees Beth too? What I mean is that time and again, people describe Beth as being so gutsy ans such a strong woman, but if you're saying that she kept Josh around because she didn't want to be alone, that greatly diminishes that ballsy woman everyone wants to picture her as being.

People make mistakes. Things happen. If BC or AD had happened as stand alone, I could see a bit of defense for her. But when you compound her behavior in both episodes, I can't forgive or condone what she did. As I said, to me it made her unlikable. And considering she was supposed to be the heroine of the story and someone that the female audience could experience the story through, to me and for me, the writers missed the mark...big time.

Oh and Red, don't get me started on character development in later episodes.

Thanks for not hurling the cutlery in my direction, ladies.

When I see Beth as independent and strong, I see a woman who pointed a gun at a guy and shot him in the neck. I see a woman who offered herself up to a dying vampire, trusting that he wouldn't kill her. I see a woman who wants answers and doesn't let someone tell her she can't get them because it might be dangerous. I also see a woman who maybe didn't cheat physically on her boyfriend, but certainly emotionally and experienced a healthy dose of confusion over her feelings for both men.

To me, that makes her human.

For me, that about sums it all up Pgal. Couldn't have said it better.

SirenSong wrote:

redwinter101 wrote:One more thing on Beth not cutting Josh loose, I do think there was an element of not wanting to end up with no-one. She knew the chances of getting something long-term with Mick were shaky, no matter how much she wanted him and if she'd ended things with Josh, there was a real chance she would have been alone.

That really is a harsh thing for her to have done - kept him around as her fallback position - but I also think, again, that it's a very plausible scenario and I do think it was brave of the writers not to make her pure as the driven snow.

And coco, we can share our fury once we get to those episodes .

Red

But doesn't that keeping Josh as a fall-back position kind of go against how everyone sees Beth too? What I mean is that time and again, people describe Beth as being so gutsy ans such a strong woman, but if you're saying that she kept Josh around because she didn't want to be alone, that greatly diminishes that ballsy woman everyone wants to picture her as being.

People make mistakes. Things happen. If BC or AD had happened as stand alone, I could see a bit of defense for her. But when you compound her behavior in both episodes, I can't forgive or condone what she did. As I said, to me it made her unlikable. And considering she was supposed to be the heroine of the story and someone that the female audience could experience the story through, to me and for me, the writers missed the mark...big time.

That's the problem for me as well. It was continued behavior in that regard. Call her 'confused' but I don't think that makes it fine to actively pursue another guy repeatedly while you have a boyfriend, just because you're starting to develop feelings for him and are trying to work out what they are.

But doesn't that keeping Josh as a fall-back position kind of go against how everyone sees Beth too? What I mean is that time and again, people describe Beth as being so gutsy ans such a strong woman, but if you're saying that she kept Josh around because she didn't want to be alone, that greatly diminishes that ballsy woman everyone wants to picture her as being.

Personally, I don't think it had anything to do with being alone. I think it was about hurting Josh and herself needlessly. There is this undeniable pull towards Mick but no future there. That's a hell of a situation to be in. It doesn't have anything to do with being strong or gutsy. She has a man who loves her and is dependable and reliable. And she's attracted to a vampire who draws her inexplicably but pushes her away. A lot of woman would say she'd be crazy to let Josh go.

Josh and Mick are the difference between thinking with your head and thinking with your, umm, heart. Yeah, heart.

But whatever her reasons she was hurting Josh and had to realize that, yet she still didn't step-up. That was decidedly not strong. It was selfish.

Yes, I guess it is selfish.

But Mick isn't totally unselfish either. He keeps saying how he should step back from Beth, that she has Josh and a chance at a happy life with him but he's not able to do that either. He knows damn well Beth is infatuated with him. He keeps her on a leash. When she gets to close he pulls back. He's just as confused as she is. And just as selfish.

I think she was trying to be strong and do the right thing, that's why she didn't drop Josh immediately. Let's face it, things were not clear between her and Mick, hell, they hardly knew each other for any real length of time (not withstanding the whole saving her when she was a tot!) She wasn't sleeping with Mick--was she wrong for having an emotional affair with him--yeah, but she was confused. She had the 'perfect' guy-then she meets the sexy vamp who saved her. How can one even wrap their head around that? She certainly wasn't going to make rash decision. I don't look at it at all like she was hanging on to Josh until she found out if her and Mick were going to hook up, I look at it as a strong woman trying to figure her life out and make a rational decision out of an irrational situation. She was probably just giving the relationship with Josh the time and respect she thought it deserved, though she did have some screw-ups. Again: not perfect, but perfectly human.

If she were in her right mind when she tried to seduce Mick I think I'd have more of an issue with it. If she set out to do that she should have dropped Josh first. But she was high and did something she never would have let her rational self do.

Does she have feelings for Mick. Yes she does. Is she attracted to him. Hell yes. But does she fully understand this attraction? No. WE do. WE know at this point that Mick saved her as a child and the reason she has always felt safe. A part of her recognizes him and is drawn to him. I'm sure she struggles with making sense of it. The SANE thing to do is to stay with Josh.

GuardianAngel wrote:If she were in her right mind when she tried to seduce Mick I think I'd have more of an issue with it. If she set out to do that she should have dropped Josh first. But she was high and did something she never would have let her rational self do.

Does she have feelings for Mick. Yes she does. Is she attracted to him. Hell yes. But does she fully understand this attraction? No. WE do. WE know at this point that Mick saved her as a child and the reason she has always felt safe. A part of her recognizes him and is drawn to him. I'm sure she struggles with making sense of it. The SANE thing to do is to stay with Josh.

ITA GA. I had much more of an issue with Beth in later episodes after she knew what we knew and still stayed with Josh but that's for another discussion. At the time of BC, I could understand her not wanting to give up Josh and yet be drawn to Mick at the same time

coco wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:If she were in her right mind when she tried to seduce Mick I think I'd have more of an issue with it. If she set out to do that she should have dropped Josh first. But she was high and did something she never would have let her rational self do.

Does she have feelings for Mick. Yes she does. Is she attracted to him. Hell yes. But does she fully understand this attraction? No. WE do. WE know at this point that Mick saved her as a child and the reason she has always felt safe. A part of her recognizes him and is drawn to him. I'm sure she struggles with making sense of it. The SANE thing to do is to stay with Josh.

ITA GA. I had much more of an issue with Beth in later episodes after she knew what we knew and still stayed with Josh but that's for another discussion. At the time of BC, I could understand her not wanting to give up Josh and yet be drawn to Mick at the same time

I suppose it comes down to where you draw the line on cheating. No, she and Mick never slept together while she was with Josh, but Beth WAS emotionally cheating on Josh (plus of course we have the kissing incident and the attempted seduction), and to me, that's just as bad if not worse. When i read the arguments for her behavior, I'm still hearing time and again that Beth was understandably confused and that people don't blame her for staying with Josh at this point. Some have even said that it was okay because she didn't know where things were headed with Mick. To me that still sounds like it's okay for her to hold onto one guy until she firms up plans with the next.

But I guess in the long run, it all comes down to perception. As I said, for me, the writers moved her character into a direction I couldn't quite stomach. And I agree that killing off Josh later on was the biggest cop out. Then of course we had the absurd two week mourning period, but I digress.