Moonlightaholics

mwj01 wrote:

coco wrote:

mwj01 wrote:

Luxe de Luxe wrote: its all cool coco.

I just think that Beth's treatment of JOsh put her in a bad light. I suppose we've all mistreated boyfriends in some ways - it just wasn't pretty to see. And I thought Mick deserved a more morally sound girlfriend - someone who was as clear about good behaviour as he was.

This is refreshing to read. I always had sympathy for Josh and the way Beth treated him, especially when he practically begged her to be upfront with him regarding Mick and she still would not. Josh may have not been all that exciting compared to Mick but she was supposed to be committed to him and handled herself poorly with little regard for his feelings, to say the least. In fact she treated both of them shabbily and they both deserved better. *dodges*

mwj I would never throw a tomato at you but I think we are going to see things differently here

Beth is more often than not seen as the one who acted badly in this instance and when it comes to the Josh situation I can understand that. I look at it differenly though based on the situation Beth was in at the time. As much as Beth was the one with the boyfriend, Mick knew this too and still flirted with her and allowed the signals from Beth. Mick was not a saint in all this and IMO liked the way Beth acted in BC and on some level even encouraged the way she acted.

back! I agree there was some mutual flirting but still see her as more culpable. I don't see how he encouraged her behavior in BC...do you mean the attempted seduction specifically?

No not specifically. I guess in everything that had come before the attempted seduction. Mick was aware she was attracted to him and there are moments where I felt it was encouraged because he wanted her to be attracted to him. When I look at the morning after scene I see an understanding between them both of what happened and the continued denial of the feelings.

Not everyone will have that view and that's OK. I am guilty of being protective of Beth and that may be what's happening here

I think this is a really interesting discussion - it's lovely to hear everyone's views - because I think so much of what happened in this episode cuts to the core of Mick/Beth.

Mick isn't perfect.

Beth isn't perfect.

But they are just starting to think that they might be perfect for each other.

And an attraction like that makes both of them vulnerable to acting in ways they might never have imagined.

Red

redwinter101 wrote:I think this is a really interesting discussion - it's lovely to hear everyone's views - because I think so much of what happened in this episode cuts to the core of Mick/Beth.

Mick isn't perfect.

Beth isn't perfect.

But they are just starting to think that they might be perfect for each other.

And an attraction like that makes both of them vulnerable to acting in ways they might never have imagined.

Red

Hmmm...what's that sound? Oh yeah, it's the wind being sucked out of my sails....

Red, I was JUST about to make the same point. Neither are perfect, which makes them perfect for each other. Neither one's hands are clean in this whole scenario, but I'm a big believer in "the heart wants what it wants". Even when it hurts other people, even the ones we love, it's hard to fight an attraction that's bigger than you are.

Where does Beth go when she's whacked out on BC? To her boyfriend, Mr. Steady ADA? No. She heads for Mick and attempts to seduce him. What does Mick do when Beth comes on to him? Call said Mr. Steady ADA Boyfriend and tell him to come fetch his woman? No. He almost kisses her, then tries to bring her down with a shower, then undresses her and puts her on his couch in one of his shirts.

There's enough blame to go around here on both ends.

PNWgal, your sails are doing just fine, honey .

As we've reached 20 pages, I'd suggest we keep the discussion going in this thread until GA is ready with the next set of caps and then we can start a new thread.

Red

It's not all Beth's fault

Thank you ladies for saying things a whole lot better than I ever could with my rambling

Nope neither are perfect which is interesting to discuss imo. We can't help our feelings, but she should have cut Josh loose. That's something she could help.

Oh I agree, mwj. If we want to talk about apportioning blame (and I confess, I think that's moot once you're talking about falling in love), one person who is blameless in this is Josh. He didn't deserve to have his lover fall for someone else; he didn't deserve to get caught up in something that was beyond everyone's control. Wrong place, wrong time.

It's probably a discussion for later episodes but Beth certainly should have ended things with him once she knew her heart was with someone else. All those things she should have done - and they are all so easy to say but so much harder to do.

Red

Ok - I'll give you that Beth should have given Josh a formal "heave-ho" when she started developing feelings for Mick.

No one deserves to get their heart broken, least of all nice guy Josh, but you'd think the guy saw it coming.

Josh certainly didn't deserve what happened to him and I too think she should have ended it with him but I didn't feel this way until a later episode which I'll comment on when we get to it but at the time of BC I felt Beth was acting on an attraction to Mick and was beginning to fall in love with him but had no sure feelings one way or the other to end things with Josh. JMO

coco--you know I am always going to agree with you when it comes to Mick and Beth.

I also was furiously nodding my head in agreement with red's previous post re: Mick and Beth being morally ambiguous. And we all know that Josh wasn't. He was a civil servant for Bob's sake. Lived by a moral code, and saw things in black and white.

Mick couldn't have been any grayer! And therein lies part of the attraction.

Is it okay if I squee a bit? My hubby surprised me this afternoon with my very own little laptop!!! It's an adorable HP Mini--and this is my first time typing on it!!

I even set it all up myself, red. The world must be coming to an end!!

Lisa, I'm holding my breath, waiting for the world to tip off its axis. You are one lucky lady. *waves to Mr. Fleur*

And I agree about Mick's attraction being precisely because he isn't a white hat (as Josh and Talbot are) - he is perfect in his glorious imperfection.

Red

coco wrote:Josh certainly didn't deserve what happened to him and I too think she should have ended it with him but I didn't feel this way until a later episode which I'll comment on when we get to it but at the time of BC I felt Beth was acting on an attraction to Mick and was beginning to fall in love with him but had no sure feelings one way or the other to end things with Josh. JMO

I'll agree with this as well, coco. Beth may have wanted Mick, was beginning to fall in love with him, but that doesn't mean she didn't still love Josh.

ETA: Yay, Lisa! I think Mr. Fleur gets a big hug and kiss for being so awesome!

And I agree about Mick's attraction being precisely because he isn't a white hat (as Josh and Talbot are) - he is perfect in his glorious imperfection.

Oh god yes.
And Mick has that whole bad boy wanting to be a good guy thing goin' on. He's the rebel on the white horse--how hot is that.

And yes, I am very lucky---Mr. Fleur with the stem told me he got me this so I could email, gmail, and "use it to go on that ML site" I just have to get used to using it. I will probably figure it out within the next 1,000 posts or so.

Back on topic: for such a seductive episode, it is absolutely wonderful how much discussion we have mined from it. So many layers to peel away. Or, we are all just extremely smart.

I'm going with smart

I guess my problem with all of this discussion is how easily people can forgive Beth's behavior. I've never understood it. Yes, Mick isn't perfect, but he certainly thought of Beth's boyfriend and the implications of her coming on to him more than she did. Talk about trying to save someone from themselves. The bottom line for me is that Mick is free, Beth is not. She definitely should have turned Josh free when she realized that she had growing feelings for someone else and certainly when she started more than just flirting (AD). It made Beth unlikable in my eyes. Up until AD, I was thoroughly on the MickBeth love train. But to me, as long as she insisted on keeping good guy Josh in tow, it made her someone I could no longer relate to.

Shall I duck the cutlery now?