Moonlightaholics

Hey all,

A wonderful, thoughtful thread.

I think that after the feeding in Fever there's not much to apologise for. They've already reached a level of intimacy that makes it look disingenuous for Beth to suddenly become a blushing schoolgirl. It was actually Mick who initially had trouble dealing with what happened. And I imagine it wasn't because of the intimate nature, but because of the implications and because this had never happened to him before.

The intimacy is unspoken, but is beautifully played in these scenes. Neither one is avoiding what happened. Neither one is truly embarrassed. They're very accepting of it, owning it.

That's what I love about their relationship. They've had an easy cameraderie since the beginning. Given their complex history, they already share an unspoken bond. I love that it's not especially angsty. It's more like coming home.

Of course, if it were me, I would be mortified.

Fleur de Lisa wrote:You make some really valid points, luxe.

I think her 'apology' comment does stem in part from the guilt she carries. Her and Mick haven't done anything untoward--save for a few kisses and a feeding. Okay, maybe I need to amend that statement after further thought...

Anyhow. You know how you hear about people getting into emotional affairs with others? There isn't sex involved, but the other person is clearly taking over your heart. That is what is happening here, and she knows it. Of course, Mick doesn't make things any easier with the constant back and forth, but, that is what we loved about ML.

Was Mick SUPPOSED to be making it easier for her? He found himself in a not unique position of falling in love with someone else's girlfriend... and in this case, it's not like he and Josh were actually friends. And it COULD be argued that Mick saw her first, so he had dibs...

I don't think this is Mick's faux pas. I am not even saying it is Beth's... she obviously is interested in Mick, given the parking lot kiss that, apparently, wasn't an accident after all... the BC gives her the cojones to go for more than a kiss. He stops it cold, because she IS drugged. And dammit he's a gentleman.

But still, she WAS taunting the vamp... and I would think she MIGHT consider saying sorry I came on so strong, for teasing under the influence. Cause she DID put him into the position of having to be the gentleman. Really what choice did he have? Had he taken her up on her offer, he'd have been little better than guys who drug women at bars. So she put him into a hard spot, as it were, and he, the vampire, had to be the one to exert extreme control. I think that's worth an apology... even if she went on to say, I'll do that again some day, sans drugs.

I still say, what is she really apologizing to Josh for? Yes she was at the bar with Mick, but she didn't know Josh and Carl were gonna crash the party, so it's not like she set Josh up. And she was there for legit purposes. Was she thinking impure thoughts about the vampire? Well yeah, and Josh knows it. But I don't think that's what she went to apologize for. And it's not her fault if Josh is losing face amongst his coworkers. He has no chance against Mick... it's a cruel world.

wpgrace wrote:
But still, she WAS taunting the vamp... and I would think she MIGHT consider saying sorry I came on so strong, for teasing under the influence. Cause she DID put him into the position of having to be the gentleman. Really what choice did he have? Had he taken her up on her offer, he'd have been little better than guys who drug women at bars. So she put him into a hard spot, as it were, and he, the vampire, had to be the one to exert extreme control. I think that's worth an apology... even if she went on to say, I'll do that again some day, sans drugs.

I

Correct me if I'm wrong. She couldn't remember what dress she was wearing. I presume she didn't remember anything. Where Mick was a true gentleman was in not potentially embarrassing her with further details. And I don't think she put him in the position of "having to be" a gentleman. He chose to be. Big difference!

lafluffy wrote:

wpgrace wrote:
But still, she WAS taunting the vamp... and I would think she MIGHT consider saying sorry I came on so strong, for teasing under the influence. Cause she DID put him into the position of having to be the gentleman. Really what choice did he have? Had he taken her up on her offer, he'd have been little better than guys who drug women at bars. So she put him into a hard spot, as it were, and he, the vampire, had to be the one to exert extreme control. I think that's worth an apology... even if she went on to say, I'll do that again some day, sans drugs.

I

Correct me if I'm wrong. She couldn't remember what dress she was wearing. I presume she didn't remember anything. Where Mick was a true gentleman was in not potentially embarrassing her with further details.

Yes, he was a gentleman the next morning too... so true! Tho actually he asked her if she remembers... and at first she says not really and then she admits she does... so maybe she doesn't recall it all, but she recalls the gist of it...

But that dress really wasn't any more revealing than the one she wore to the club--in fact the club dress had a shorter skirt... so I don't quite get her reaction to it... plus at some point she had BOUGHT that dress, I would assume intending to wear it... so her retraction of the dress--saying it isn't like her-- was weird. But the scene was still fun. And he still looked amazing. He weathered the night ok...

wpgrace wrote:

lafluffy wrote:

wpgrace wrote:
But still, she WAS taunting the vamp... and I would think she MIGHT consider saying sorry I came on so strong, for teasing under the influence. Cause she DID put him into the position of having to be the gentleman. Really what choice did he have? Had he taken her up on her offer, he'd have been little better than guys who drug women at bars. So she put him into a hard spot, as it were, and he, the vampire, had to be the one to exert extreme control. I think that's worth an apology... even if she went on to say, I'll do that again some day, sans drugs.

I

Correct me if I'm wrong. She couldn't remember what dress she was wearing. I presume she didn't remember anything. Where Mick was a true gentleman was in not potentially embarrassing her with further details.

Yes, he was a gentleman the next morning too... so true! Tho actually he asked her if she remembers... and at first she says not really and then she admits she does... so maybe she doesn't recall it all, but she recalls the gist of it...

I stand corrected. Thanks!

redwinter101 wrote:I really liked this scene. Liked it the first time I saw it - like it even more on reflection. This is the Mick/Beth that appeals to me.

She's no shrinking violet - she's a little thrilled by the recollection of what happened, even though they skirt around the specifics. She got to Mick and while she may have some regrets about how that came about, I don't think she regretted that it happened. It gave her the courage to do what, let's face it, she'd been wanting to do for quite some time.

And so to Mick - he's no shrinking violet either. He's not making any apologies for getting her undressed and he's enjoying her discomfort (such as it is). He feels the thrill too. This is just such a flirty scene.

And Mick looks so at ease, sitting in that chair. Sigh. Just so gorgeous.

But I agree - her apologies should have started with Mick - but then she wasn't really sorry, was she?

Red

I've always loved that scene in BC. It's one of my favourites between them.

ITA with Red here. This is all out flirty Mick/Beth. I personally think they both know what's going on and are continuing to pretend as always that what's going on, isn't

An apology maybe should have gone Mick's way but she wasn't sorry about it and neither was he so that's why there wasn't one

An apology maybe should have gone Mick's way but she wasn't sorry about it and neither was he so that's why there wasn't one

Thank you for simplifying what I was trying to say! I still think that Beth felt that she owed an apology or something to Josh. They are in a relationship and they had words. So, after you argue, you usually say you're sorry and make up. And they both pretty much did exactly that.
He didn't want her involved in the case, he saw her and Mick together again, and she's falling in love with Mick. That's enough to give anyone a case of the guilts!

She can't be honest with Josh about Mick's true nature, and she is hiding her developing feelings for him. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I do feel badly for the guy in that respect.

Fleur de Lisa wrote:

She can't be honest with Josh about Mick's true nature, and she is hiding her developing feelings for him. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I do feel badly for the guy in that respect.

ITA Fleur. She did treat Josh quite badly throughout I thought. Didn't make her a good girlfriend prospect for Mick I also thought..... there are other, more vampy vamps out there who might have taken an interest in her at some point cough-Kostan-cough

Luxe de Luxe wrote:

Fleur de Lisa wrote:

She can't be honest with Josh about Mick's true nature, and she is hiding her developing feelings for him. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I do feel badly for the guy in that respect.

ITA Fleur. She did treat Josh quite badly throughout I thought. Didn't make her a good girlfriend prospect for Mick I also thought..... there are other, more vampy vamps out there who might have taken an interest in her at some point cough-Kostan-cough

Now see that just hurts my head I love Josef and I love Beth just not together. Although I admit there are a few authors out there at the moment doing quite a good job of making me see the possibility

its all cool coco.

I just think that Beth's treatment of JOsh put her in a bad light. I suppose we've all mistreated boyfriends in some ways - it just wasn't pretty to see. And I thought Mick deserved a more morally sound girlfriend - someone who was as clear about good behaviour as he was.

I see it a little differently - no matter how much Mick and Beth painted themselves on the right side of the moral divide, to me, they were both extremely morally ambiguous.

Mick was a bad boy from way back (he knew Coraline was trouble - even though he didn't know precisely what kind of trouble) and wasn't averse to killing when he felt it to be justified. He has his own moral code - and adheres to it with iron self-control - but it certainly isn't one that always puts him on the right side of the law.

Beth murdered Dean Foster. 'Nuff said.

I think they meet in the grey areas and that allows them a level of understanding. It's not all hearts and flowers with these two, no matter how much they go on about guardian angels and other such sweetness.

Red

Luxe de Luxe wrote: its all cool coco.

I just think that Beth's treatment of JOsh put her in a bad light. I suppose we've all mistreated boyfriends in some ways - it just wasn't pretty to see. And I thought Mick deserved a more morally sound girlfriend - someone who was as clear about good behaviour as he was.

Yes I admit that Beth's treatment of Josh was a little off at times but I guess in the instance of BC I can understand why she acted the way she did with Mick. I'm probably one of Beth's biggest fans on this board and I've always looked at it as Mick had drawn her into his world and she was living amongst it and being excited by it and I also think there was an element of Mick enjoying that aspect too. Her treatment of Josh is bound to be affected as she can't bring him into this world or explain her actions to him or explain her connection to Mick properly.

Luxe de Luxe wrote: I just think that Beth's treatment of JOsh put her in a bad light. I suppose we've all mistreated boyfriends in some ways - it just wasn't pretty to see. And I thought Mick deserved a more morally sound girlfriend - someone who was as clear about good behaviour as he was.

This is refreshing to read. I always had sympathy for Josh and the way Beth treated him, especially when he practically begged her to be upfront with him regarding Mick and she still would not. Josh may have not been all that exciting compared to Mick but she was supposed to be committed to him and handled herself poorly with little regard for his feelings, to say the least. In fact she treated both of them shabbily and they both deserved better. *dodges*

mwj01 wrote:

Luxe de Luxe wrote: its all cool coco.

I just think that Beth's treatment of JOsh put her in a bad light. I suppose we've all mistreated boyfriends in some ways - it just wasn't pretty to see. And I thought Mick deserved a more morally sound girlfriend - someone who was as clear about good behaviour as he was.

This is refreshing to read. I always had sympathy for Josh and the way Beth treated him, especially when he practically begged her to be upfront with him regarding Mick and she still would not. Josh may have not been all that exciting compared to Mick but she was supposed to be committed to him and handled herself poorly with little regard for his feelings, to say the least. In fact she treated both of them shabbily and they both deserved better. *dodges*

mwj I would never throw a tomato at you but I think we are going to see things differently here

Beth is more often than not seen as the one who acted badly in this instance and when it comes to the Josh situation I can understand that. I look at it differenly though based on the situation Beth was in at the time. As much as Beth was the one with the boyfriend, Mick knew this too and still flirted with her and allowed the signals from Beth. Mick was not a saint in all this and IMO liked the way Beth acted in BC and on some level even encouraged the way she acted.

coco wrote:

mwj01 wrote:

Luxe de Luxe wrote: its all cool coco.

I just think that Beth's treatment of JOsh put her in a bad light. I suppose we've all mistreated boyfriends in some ways - it just wasn't pretty to see. And I thought Mick deserved a more morally sound girlfriend - someone who was as clear about good behaviour as he was.

This is refreshing to read. I always had sympathy for Josh and the way Beth treated him, especially when he practically begged her to be upfront with him regarding Mick and she still would not. Josh may have not been all that exciting compared to Mick but she was supposed to be committed to him and handled herself poorly with little regard for his feelings, to say the least. In fact she treated both of them shabbily and they both deserved better. *dodges*

mwj I would never throw a tomato at you but I think we are going to see things differently here

Beth is more often than not seen as the one who acted badly in this instance and when it comes to the Josh situation I can understand that. I look at it differenly though based on the situation Beth was in at the time. As much as Beth was the one with the boyfriend, Mick knew this too and still flirted with her and allowed the signals from Beth. Mick was not a saint in all this and IMO liked the way Beth acted in BC and on some level even encouraged the way she acted.

back! I agree there was some mutual flirting but her relationship with Josh made her much more responsible. I don't see how he encouraged her behavior in BC...do you mean the attempted seduction specifically?