Moonlightaholics

I have to agree with Red,

I see Mick as having too much strenght and commitment to self to allow addictions to run his life. He knew that Coraline was toxic to him and took the steps he believed necessary to end that relationship. That kind of decision reflects the kind of person Mick wants the world to see.

MS, I agree. I've always thought the single hardest, most hateful thing for Mick about being a vampire, was that he had no control over what he had become. He was turned against his will and lost the chance for all the things he thought his life would bring. And that's why I think he would never really be able to forgive Coraline.

Having lost control over the fundamentals of his very existence, so much of his life became about controlling the things that he could control.

And I think that's why his decision to have Josef re-turn him makes sense - it was his decision, being fully aware of the consequences. Even though he knew he would turn back eventually, he could be a bit more at peace with being a vampire because he had decided when and how.

Red

And another Mick pic, because, well, do I need a reason?



Red

redwinter101 wrote:

pinkiepie230 wrote: Mick was born with those angsty emotionally strong responsible traits. Being turned didn't make him that way, he would have been that way had he remained a human. Perhaps vampirism enhanced and perfected his strengths. He now has something solid to blame his self doubts on. Had he not been turned I am sure he would have destroyed himself with alcohol or drugs, trying to numb his strong emotions. He is truly a unique character and so multi-faceted. Yep, definitely a Mick Chick all the way.

I agree about him having those strong emotional traits but I disagree about the drink and drugs thing. We have all seen Mick's iron self-control - and we know it stemmed from his time as a human too. When Ray came home, he upped and left (rightly or wrongly), tearing himself away from a love that had provided him with a haven after the war.

The next we see of him is 1952 and he's got the bad-boy musician thing going on. Yes, he's not exactly made a steady career choice, but he's getting on with his life. He was looking for something new and found it in Coraline. And then, despite everything she did, he stayed married to her for all those years, with only the threat of a child's murder driving him to kill her.

I think under the circumstances, he's amazingly stable! There is an inherent goodness, a desire to be a good person and live life the way he feels to be right, that shines through human-Mick and vamp-Mick. Well, that's what I see anyway..

Red

You know Red, you are right about that. I wrote that and then thought about it. He would have had the tendencies for drink and drug but his strong background of moral conviction would have pulled him out of it. He has learned to endure the pain of his burden and proceed no matter what. I stand corrected on that. My fear would have been that he would have tried to destroy that part of him but he would have overcome it in the end.
Phoenix I feel the same way about his FOS, I so wanted to learn more about his tastes in art and literature. His place facinated me, it showed the complexities of the man himself. He held onto everything and it all had meaning to him. All I can say is thank God for Trevor and Alex, they made Mick and we can dream on about him!
Waving at Raven!!!

pinkiepie230 wrote:He has learned to endure the pain of his burden and proceed no matter what.

Oh I absolutely agree

I think that Mick fundamentally loves life. He could have given up, he could have let himself fade away from neglect - but he didn't. He keeps going, keeps trying, keeps striving.

Red

Great thought Red!

Mick was at peace with 're'turning to his vampire existence. It was his choice that time. Coraline might have even convinced him if she had offered the decision to him rather than arbitrarily making that choice for him. If they (the writers) had ever intended for that relationship to work the whole background would have had to be set up differently.

But the personality of Coraline would not have been as strong or as believable. She was trained from birth to be the consumate manipulator. Just as Mick was "trained" to be the man that he became.

Phoenix: Beautiful pics and they do illustrate two different eras of Mick; always gorgeous but in two different places in life, in emotions, in understanding about his own future; and is there really such a thing as Gratuitous MickPics?

Red: I agree--and so does dearest Pinkie... Mick does not have an addictive personality. He does have an iron will... which is a good thing because he also has an incredibly passionate personality. He doesn't jump into things in half measures... thus the Cora experience and now the Beth experience. Remember Josef's line to him in WLB...when Mick tells Josef that he might have a grandson by a relationship with his best friend's wife? Deadpan: "well never a dull moment with you is there; I'll give you that much>" SO true. Mick was not fated for a dull life... he embraces life and people with unmitigated passion. It sometimes brings him joy, sometimes trouble. His iron will has kept his passion from destroying him I think. He can pull back from the brink.

Tho while I don't think addiction is his thing, I'm guessing he tried himself some drugs... Musician?

Moonshadow: I think he might possibly have let himself be turned, had she bothered to ease him into the culture and given him an eventual choice. He's got game. He is no shrinking violet. He has immense courage. And he loved the hell out of her... BUt she got 33 years so not a total loss for her, that mistake.

And Raven: Dearest, tell us how you really feel. (and I sooooo agree).

eyes that mirror colors of the world, a cleft chin that begs for a tongue to run down it, a knee kick out gait that was created to wrap around...you get the drift.

Raven, I want permission from you to use any or all of that in future fic.

so basically we all agree that he is the perfect man

alyssa, I don't think you'll hear many disagreements around here

MS,

MoonShadow wrote:Coraline might have even convinced him if she had offered the decision to him rather than arbitrarily making that choice for him.

You have no idea how long I spend thinking about that one. For the most part, given what we know about Mick at that time, I think that he probably would have "accepted her gift". He might not have understood precisely what that meant, but I think it's a distinct possibility. And for me, that makes it even more tragic for Coraline - with one misjudgement, she saw the thing she wanted most, tried to grab it and ended up crushing it. But, as you say, that's why the dynamic works - it would have had to be a very different show otherwise.

wpgrace, love the Josef quote and yeah, not fated for a dull life... But again, we wouldn't want him any other way.

Red

redwinter101 wrote:alyssa, I don't think you'll hear many disagreements around here

MS,

MoonShadow wrote:Coraline might have even convinced him if she had offered the decision to him rather than arbitrarily making that choice for him.

You have no idea how long I spend thinking about that one. For the most part, given what we know about Mick at that time, I think that he probably would have "accepted her gift". He might not have understood precisely what that meant, but I think it's a distinct possibility. And for me, that makes it even more tragic for Coraline - with one misjudgement, she saw the thing she wanted most, tried to grab it and ended up crushing it. But, as you say, that's why the dynamic works - it would have had to be a very different show otherwise.

wpgrace, love the Josef quote and yeah, not fated for a dull life... But again, we wouldn't want him any other way.

Red

Yeah, even HAD Cora given him the choice... and as you see from my post, I agree with you that he would have gone with it ... they would have ended up with some sort of trouble. She is inherently who she is... as cute and fun and sexy and seductive as she can be, she is also a game player. I think Mick would've gotten tired of that... as Josef himself seemed to have done. In some of the MickJosef discussions about Cora, it sounds like whatever her relationship with Josef over the centuries had been, she sorta had worn on him. Woulda happened to some degree or at some point with Mick, too, because he fundamentally is a true soul.

I also think they would eventually have had to work thru dominance issues. In Red's Anniversary they do, and it is complicated of course by the non-consensual turning. But even without that complication, that issue would have come up. In Red's story, Mick even has to work this out with Josef. I think this IS part of his make up... he doesn't like to be the junior partner. He and Josef came to accomodation. Where would he and Cora have ended up?

Now they may have been able to make it work, had the turning been with his consent. Who knows? But I DO think there would have been some troubles, serious ones, due to the inherent differences in their morality, their cultures, their world views, and their expectations. And that might have made an interesting show, but I think the one we got was better...

Grace, as I think you once memorably commented about Coraline, she is a fascinating character, with some intriguing qualities, but you wouldn't want her as a BFF.

As for Mick, I'd never thought his aversion to being the junior partner in *any* relationship but you are so right. That's one of the reasons why his friendship with Josef works - because there's no bowing and scraping. And yes, even had he accepted C's "gift" that would not have meant a smooth ride. Oh no. Anything but.

For me, it all comes back to his strength of character. He's not perfect (because the whole white knight thing is kinda dull anyway - he is perfect in his imperfection) but he is, without doubt, heroic.

Red

And just to complement the discussion (because I'm good like that), a pic for today:



Red

redwinter101 wrote:Grace, as I think you once memorably commented about Coraline, she is a fascinating character, with some intriguing qualities, but you wouldn't want her as a BFF.

As for Mick, I'd never thought his aversion to being the junior partner in *any* relationship but you are so right. That's one of the reasons why his friendship with Josef works - because there's no bowing and scraping. And yes, even had he accepted C's "gift" that would not have meant a smooth ride. Oh no. Anything but.

For me, it all comes back to his strength of character. He's not perfect (because the whole white knight thing is kinda dull anyway - he is perfect in his imperfection) but he is, without doubt, heroic.

Red

Hmmmm.... You never thought about him not wanting to be a junior partner in any relationship? But YOUR story shows the slow building of his relationship with Josef... as Mick moves FROM the junior partner (which he DID not like) to an equal with him... an interesting balance of power/mutual respect between the two that results in such lines in the show as Josef saying "I know we have an unwritten rule about giving each other advice..."

YOUR story also details, as this balance of power is coming about between the boys, the shift in the balance of power between Mick and Cora... which is part of (not all of) what results in the break down of THAT relationship. He was edgy as her fledgling... he felt better in later years... I think that is partly why the scene in TMC, when she feeds him that story about the "seven brothers" and the French Revolution. I was a bit ashamed of the way he bought her story hook, line, and sinker there... the look on his face in awe of her story. We KNOW part of it was fudged... 7 siblings but not all brothers... I'm guessing she oversold the extent in which the Terror was just all about vamps. (I mean PUL-LEASE!!!!).

I think you thought about it... you just never thought about it in the exact words that I used... cause I kinda cribbed it from your fic... working in your story with my viewings of the eps...

And I think part of why he is so relaxed around Beth is, she lets him be the alpha most of the time... she LETS him. Cause women always can choose...

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