Moonlightaholics

Luxe de Luxe wrote:

darkstarrising wrote: OK, here's something really outside the box....let's say Coraline was branded as a human. Wouldn't the brand heal when she was turned?

..

Just a thought (a tired one, at that)

vampire-lore-wise, I thought that you stayed exactly the same as when you were turned. So that if you had a tattoo in life, then you'd have it in un-death too. I thought that only the things that occurred post-turn healed.

Luxe,

Strictly speaking, I think you're right...although some fics have humans in really bad shape (broken bones and the like) being made whole, once turned.

As for tattoo vs branding, there's another instance in 'The Ringer' where Mick refers to Coraline's tattoo, when he's trying to convince Josef that Morgan is Coraline - "Coraline had exactly the same tattoo on the same shoulder."

So in Mick's mind, it was a tattoo....

You are right, dsr, he does refer to it as a tattoo. And she then asks him "What tattoo?"

My take was the same as yours, Luxe. That vampires only heal things that happen after they've been Turned. A fresh wound would heal but I don't think a scar would. Especially one that is from a burn. I don't think burns heal for vampires at all.

So, maybe she wasn't branded at all. But then here is a question. Can a vamp be tattooed?

you're totally right, dsr - on both counts I think. Mick does refer to it as a tattoo. Interesting muddle the writers created around that one. Perhaps coraline told him it was a tattoo, not wanting to reveal her sordid past. (although a brand would be a very obvious thing).

GuardianAngel wrote:You are right, dsr, he does refer to it as a tattoo. And she then asks him "What tattoo?"

My take was the same as yours, Luxe. That vampires only heal things that happen after they've been Turned. A fresh wound would heal but I don't think a scar would. Especially one that is from a burn. I don't think burns heal for vampires at all.

So, maybe she wasn't branded at all. But then here is a question. Can a vamp be tattooed?

Now i think we're getting into personal beliefs about vampire abilities. Personally, I think logically, a tattoo wouldn't 'take' on a vamp.

Luxe is right. In just about every vamp thing I've read (and yeah, that's a LOT), pre-existing scars, etc. stay. Wounds still open at the time of turning, heal.

In some books, the vamps wake up every night the same as they were at death...including hair style and color, so if you were turned with a bad dye job...you're really, really stuck. Obviously, this isn't the case with our ML vamps.

One exception that springs to mind is Lynsay Sands' Argeneau vampires series, where the "vampirism" results from nanobots that repair damage to the body, so old scars, etc. would go away.

Anyway, it seems that for our vamps, pre-turn tattoos and scars stay.

Lucky

If it is an actual flashback, was Coraline human or vampire when she was branded? They could not have held her down if she were vampire, but then again, there were a lot of people there, would she have revealed herself? Or was she maybe under the influence of the Cure?

It's a wonderful subject for speculation. While I was writing this tome, a lot of other people offered ideas. Here's my take.

Coraline was a member of the "noble family." There's no mention of whether they were born on the correct side of the bar sinister, however. I choose to think of the DuValls as being of royal blood, but bastards. I'm one of those who subscribe to the theory that they're all siblings, too... although I tend to believe that they've all got the same dad (a Bourbon king or at least the brother of a king) but perhaps might have different mothers.

So... Coraline is a gorgeous bastard daughter of royalty. In England, she might very well have a last name of Fitzroy in that case... but this is France, where such things are more accepted and also less noted. So she's a DuVall. She's the only girl among seven siblings, probably born over many years as the royal dad roistered around among the aristocracy and the servants of same...

Coraline is brought up in privilege, educated as a young lady, but she's got the bar sinister over her escutcheon. (Oh, nooooes!) When she grows up to be a gorgeous, sultry young woman, they figure she's much, much too pretty to waste on a nunnery. So they turn her into a "Friend of the Court." I think Beth had it right--she was a high-priced hooker, probably much against her will. She fell under someone's protection. Possibly someone who fell into royal disfavor. And maybe the DuValls were also in a temporary state of royal disfavor. Things like this happened all the time. (Sorry, European History major, these things tend to stick in the brain.) So his paramour, a DuVall, gets branded (or maybe tattooed) with a fleur de lis, to indicate both her heritage and her status.

On the other hand, let's face it--we have only Beth's image for reference. Maybe it was different. Maybe Coraline got the mark as a sign of royal favor... hmmm...

So anyway, this all happens before she's turned. Because you'd think that a tattoo, brand scar, whatever... would heal in a vamp, right? Even a vamp under the influence of the cure--it'd heal after they turned back, wouldn't it...? Hmmm... although that's also an interesting idea, that she might have been branded/tattooed under the Cure...

But let's just say I'm right and she was still human when she got the FdL. Then she gets turned.

And THAT is another really fascinating thought. Just as virgins were highly prized among debauched nobles looking for a sexual thrill, perhaps there was also a market among noble vampires for beautiful young women to turn... to make into one's slave for a while, train to be a biddable little fledgling.... maybe that's what happened to Cynthia, hmmm......

But Coraline would fail miserable at the "biddable little fledgling" part...so maybe she got sent back home in disgrace, to be taught the basics of vamping by her wonderful brothers.

OK, now my brain hurts...

allegrita wrote: And THAT is another really fascinating thought. Just as virgins were highly prized among debauched nobles looking for a sexual thrill, perhaps there was also a market among noble vampires for beautiful young women to turn... to make into one's slave for a while, train to be a biddable little fledgling.... maybe that's what happened to Cynthia, hmmm......

But Coraline would fail miserable at the "biddable little fledgling" part...so maybe she got sent back home in disgrace, to be taught the basics of vamping by her wonderful brothers.

OK, now my brain hurts...

Wow!! I was just getting ready to log off and toddle off to bed, but that is an interesting idea....if human men could treat human women in such a manner, why wouldn't male vamps do the same? Were they once not human males?

OK Alle, that's got my brain hummin'

so interesting Alle... thanks for your marvellous thoughts.

I suspect Coraline was either human or had taken the cure when branded. I also suspect that she's a bastard daughter of royalty. I think her branding though, (if indeed this was a flashback and not Beth's wish fulfulment fantasy!) would be entirely due to Coraline rather than as a punishment for a wrong doing done by her benefactor. We know that coraline eschews social norms and can be witty and biting and that she takes risks. I think she pissed off the wrong person and had a lesson taught to her via the hot iron.

I love it! So many different ideas and takes on this. You, Alle, just blew me out of the water! Wow. For me, I never believed that Coraline and her 'siblings' were related as humans - that they only share the same sire.

I SO would have loved all this to have been answered in a future episode. Maybe when Mick goes to France to follow up on what happened to Coraline we would have gotten the full version.

He definitely would have done something to save her. I think this would make the perfect Moonlight movie scenario.

Luxe de Luxe wrote:He definitely would have done something to save her. I think this would make the perfect Moonlight movie scenario.

I agree....after the door closed in Sonata, there would have been some attempt at a relationship with Beth, but there is something about Coraline that Mick just can't let go of. If there had been a second season, this could have been a major source of tension between Mick and Beth.

Now, please understand that I'm a fairly strong MickBeth shipper / whatever....but is it me or did anybody else get the feeling that in the few times we actually got to see Mick kiss either Beth or Coraline, that he was more passionate with Coraline and more tentative with Beth?

oh no... I'm with you dsr. it's that difference that Mick referred to ... the passion he felt for Coraline being like a sickness. I think with Beth, he's not sure he should actually be with her - there's the whole vamp-human aspect, but I think he has some buried paternal feelings toward her that cause a little ambivalence in him.

*Sigh* I know. I started it. But we're getting totally off track and off topic here. I DO think this is a discussion we should have. Just not at this moment.

darkstarrising wrote: Now, please understand that I'm a fairly strong MickBeth shipper / whatever....but is it me or did anybody else get the feeling that in the few times we actually got to see Mick kiss either Beth or Coraline, that he was more passionate with Coraline and more tentative with Beth?

Well, I think with Coraline--in the flashbacks to his pre-Turning, he was in the throes of a very strong passion. The relationship with Beth, was the beginnings of building what looked to be a lasting, abiding love...two very different faces of the emotion. Both valid, both valuable, but different.

Lucky

GuardianAngel wrote:*Sigh* I know. I started it. But we're getting totally off track and off topic here. I DO think this is a discussion we should have. Just not at this moment.

You're right. Back to the episode, I sure would like to find the websites Beth was doing this research on....I suppose they are just as "real" as those fake Vampire reference books in Lee Jay's trunk.

Lucky