Moonlightaholics

I know I'm jumping ahead a little, but she does seem to have thought of the whole Coraline-kidnapping-Beth thing in a very personal way. She asked why Coraline picked her. So I'm sure she thought of Mick "killing" Coraline in terms of him doing it to save her...even though Mick told her that he might have done it anyway. (Actually, I remember thinking at the time that was a weird thing for him to say. I cannot imagine Mick killing Coraline for no other reason than he wanted away from the relationship and was too hooked on her to stay away...but that's REALLY off topic.)

I'm a little behind on the discussion, but I wanted to weigh in on the narrative strategy of the staking at the beginning.

For one thing, for the viewer who might not have seen and memorized every ep, how incredibly striking is it to have that BAM! at the beginning? And straightforward narrative is not characteristic of the noir genre. This is a very noir ep. Think about Sunset Boulevard, for example (the original, not the musical). It begins with a dead body floating in a pool, and the rest of the movie, told in voiceover by the "corpse" is the story of how he came to end up there.

Yes, you lose the big shocker ending, but personally I find the more complex structure very engaging.

Lucky

I saw nothing wrong with the way the episode began, literally with a bang!! The whole epi was complex and very noir, and very seductive, but for some reason I don't tend to watch it as much as some of the others. When I do watch I sometimes skip over a few parts, esp. the outdoor scene where Mick and Cora follow the lovers around to take pics.

librarian_7 wrote:I'm a little behind on the discussion, but I wanted to weigh in on the narrative strategy of the staking at the beginning.

For one thing, for the viewer who might not have seen and memorized every ep, how incredibly striking is it to have that BAM! at the beginning? And straightforward narrative is not characteristic of the noir genre. This is a very noir ep. Think about Sunset Boulevard, for example (the original, not the musical). It begins with a dead body floating in a pool, and the rest of the movie, told in voiceover by the "corpse" is the story of how he came to end up there.

Yes, you lose the big shocker ending, but personally I find the more complex structure very engaging.

Lucky

That's a good point, Lucky... never thought of it that way... but still, since the implication in the very first few lines of that moment are that Mick and Cora have slept together again, I still think that woulda been more effective, to leave us all thru this ep with that impression. Then you get to the actual scene (shower scene of course) and see how close they came but THEN you get the bam!

But I like your analogy to Sunset Boulevard.

And I actually really like this episode. Just not the beginning... I love seeing Coraline, as Morgan, being so playful... it gives us an idea of why he married her... and I liked seeing a non-vampire detective case for Mick. And of course the Do-Gooder tries to save the girl again, only she's not a very nice girl. I don't think the guest stars are SUPPOSED to be appealing... they're all jerks in the end. That whole Hagens family and their little male secretary too....

PNWgal wrote:... And the reason I re-watch this ep so little is because I HATE the underlying premise. None of the supporting characters illicited ANY sympathy from me - I wanted to smack them all. Hard.

Excellent point. It was incredibly hard - if not impossible - to feel any empathy for the supporting characters.

Well, the supporting characters are involved in a very noir, sordid story of their own. I think had any of them been likeable or sympathetic characters, it would've impacted the whole noir vibe. This ep is all about (as was The Ringer) the past reaching out to bite people on the butt. About bad decisions and deceptive appearances.

Lucky

librarian_7 wrote:. About bad decisions and deceptive appearances.

Lucky

Very true, lucky. Like Mick said (in the original pilot) "love can make you blind, make you miss things you should have seen".
He sure did miss a lot of things and they bit him, literally (pun intended)

librarian_7 wrote:Well, the supporting characters are involved in a very noir, sordid story of their own. I think had any of them been likeable or sympathetic characters, it would've impacted the whole noir vibe. This ep is all about (as was The Ringer) the past reaching out to bite people on the butt. About bad decisions and deceptive appearances.

Lucky

Oh Lucky! YOu're our little noir cheerleader today... tho I guess that's kinda an oxymoron,huh... and I gotta admit I did love the noir... I was so sorry to see that go in the Final Four. Thanks for pointing that cool stuff out Sweetie!

And I liked the noir vibe to this ep... the colors... the seedy stuff... loved that...

So as someone who hasn't seen this ep a lot..... is this the most noir ep that ML had?

coco wrote:So as someone who hasn't seen this ep a lot..... is this the most noir ep that ML had?

Nooooo, there were strong elements in many of the first couple. The second always struck me as pretty noir. Although anytime Cora pops up they rachet up the dark noir tones.

Interesting question, coco. I think most of the early eps--up through at least Sleeping Beauty, had strong noir elements.

For me, one of the hallmarks of noir is that actions in the past, whether mistakes or accidents, haunt the present, and cause (usually unintended) consequences that often play out tragically. The characters in noir film and fiction are often forced to play out fates they realize will end badly, but cannot avoid.

While The Ringer, and Fleur de Lis, are certainly very noir, think about 12:04. Think about Out of the Past (in itself, even borrowing the title of a classic noir film). Fever is probably less noir than some eps, but it has its moments.

Lucky

aolver wrote:I'm thinking that 12:04 would have been better placed before the Ringer. After the balcony scene in 12:04 the show of jealousy by Beth at the scene of the fire in the Ringer would have made perfect sense. Then the flow from the Ringer to FDL would have been seemless.

I know you've all probably moved past this point, but I SO agree with aolver. When the episode of 12:04 started, I kept thinking to myself "Where's Morgan", where was that interesting storyline. I was so intrigued with the Ringer and wanted to know more about that. For the longest time, 12:04 was my least favorite episode because it just seemed totally out of the blue! At the end (as wonderful as the balcony scene was), I just yelled WTF at the TV. The continuity just didn't make sense. Then FDL aired and it didn't connect with 12:04 at all, it went back to the Ringer storyline. It was like 12:04 was a total accident or something.

Thanks for responding, blue and Lucky.

I'm really interested in learning more about this ep as it is the one I've watched the least. I may find some time to watch it again during the rest of the discussion but I'm interested in the POV's of others who have watched this one and enjoyed it.

ETA: because I can't type.

PNWgal wrote:

And the reason I re-watch this ep so little is because I HATE the underlying premise. None of the supporting characters illicited ANY sympathy from me - I wanted to smack them all. Hard.

Agreed, totally. My objectivity for viewing this episode was deep and very intense. I would loved for the writers to have shown Beth with a bit more rage, anger, and the look of contempt during her investigative procedures. It was afterall, her life and all of the changes that occurred within it. It was there, however, far too subtle. This was in fact a very unique, a very volatile situation. More emphasis should have been placed and shown on her fury, and the unwrapping of all of the information on her kidnapping.

Beth was an innocent child before she was kidnapped. She lost her attachment to her mother and family for a while. The drama of television or not, it is what it is. Afterwards, she was a child who survived her kidnapping. She actually lived, met her attacker and was able to talk about it. (thank you Mick!) Her life was totally changed, forever. Would love to have seen her scream, loudly, or softly, while she was investigating, rather than to continue to suffer in silence as she was doing during the entire episode.

She may have spoken softly, but she DID carry a big stick....

Sorry... historian-humor...