Moonlightaholics

I totally agree that showing the stabbing scene at the beginning gave too much away. They could even have left it with Coraline coming down the stairs. I also didn't want to see so early that both Mick and Beth knew Morgan was Coraline. They left us no surprises.

Beth's VO didn't bother me so much because it was Beth - this episode was about her discovery and coming to terms with what happened to her as a child. What I didn't like was the way it was written. It was too flowering, too pretty for the gritty storyline. Couple the surprise of it being Beth's OV with the way they started the episode and you have too much to sort out and digest right out of the gate to really enjoy it.

I agree that it would have been better to stop the intro scene before Beth staked Coraline. Perhaps with Beth hissing "How could you?!" at Mick...or even with Coraline saying, "Hi Beth..." Much more dramatic.

I liked Beth's voiceover, but it would have been better to make it more Beth-ish in tone. And I agree that it would have been better to have some acknowledgment of the dawn scene between Mick and Beth from 12:04...some transition to this new episode. It really did feel as if it was out of order in some ways.

I agree that Beth's anger worked well, and played well against Mick's (attempted) cool in the car scene.

wpgrace wrote: (And HEY SISTER M!!! See??????? I am PRAISING his acting skills! But I still want more pics! This time as a reward???? )

You're pretty much always praising his acting skills Sis! But you now know that on the rare occasion when you stop short of that, you will be responded to with a pretty pic! Come to think of it, you'll get a pretty pic anyway; this is just one more excuse to provide one. (I just hooked you up. )

I agree Lilly that the voiceovers must be more difficult to pull off than one would think.

mwj01 wrote:

wpgrace wrote: (And HEY SISTER M!!! See??????? I am PRAISING his acting skills! But I still want more pics! This time as a reward???? )

You're pretty much always praising his acting skills Sis! But you now know that on the rare occasion when you stop short of that, you will be responded to with a pretty pic! Come to think of it, you'll get a pretty pic anyway; this is just one more excuse to provide one. (I just hooked you up. )

I agree Lilly that the voiceovers must be more difficult to pull off than one would think.

A warning before the discussion starts? I feel a chill in the air

Beth's VO's were OK for me; I liked seeing through her eyes in the episode and she only had a couple, the first scene and the one at Coraline's party house.
What surprised me is the way the big dramatic ending was presented right after the opening credits. I would have saved the staking scene for the end to create an even more dramatic effect. But I guess Harry and Gabriel were not at the top of their game in this episode.

Yeah, at first, I liked hearing a different voice, but hearing what they made her say...eh. The whole bong line made me wince. Mick sounds like an old noir detective in his delivery...Beth didn't. I understand that was the point though. We were getting inside her head to find out what was going on with Morgaline.

I like the idea of not showing us the staking at the very beginning. The fans should totally write TV shows.

While I found the shift from the end of 12:04 to the beginning of Fleur de Lis a bit jarring, I enjoyed both Beth's V.O. and the episode itself - although I will agree that opening scene could have ended before the staking. It would have made the ending have much more impact if we weren't expecting it.

I get that we are supposed to be seeing Beth's pov here, but I didn't care about it.

A question for you, Grace - did you not care about it because of the way it was presented, or you weren't interested in Beth's POV in general? Since her kidnapping as a child was sort of the catalyst for the Mick/Beth relationship, it was kinda cool to see things through her eyes for a change. It would make sense that Beth would have started putting some pieces together, and I was glad to see her finally start getting angry about what had happened to her.

While I liked the overall episode, no doubt there were some rough spots...but I'll save those to when we cover them.

PNWgal wrote:While I found the shift from the end of 12:04 to the beginning of Fleur de Lis a bit jarring, I enjoyed both Beth's V.O. and the episode itself - although I will agree that opening scene could have ended before the staking. It would have made the ending have much more impact if we weren't expecting it.

I get that we are supposed to be seeing Beth's pov here, but I didn't care about it.

A question for you, Grace - did you not care about it because of the way it was presented, or you weren't interested in Beth's POV in general? Since her kidnapping as a child was sort of the catalyst for the Mick/Beth relationship, it was kinda cool to see things through her eyes for a change. It would make sense that Beth would have started putting some pieces together, and I was glad to see her finally start getting angry about what had happened to her.

While I liked the overall episode, no doubt there were some rough spots...but I'll save those to when we cover them.

I think it was the delivery in part, but also the lines... Alex made some odd lines sound good. And he always made it sound so intimate, like we were getting a peak inside Mick that no one else had, not even Josef... and like we had a little insight into his ultimate personality, which was an interesting personality, and not always the one he showed in his actual interactions on screen. I think that's a big part of WHY we all liked the VO device so much... it wasn't JUST Alex's voice... (tho that did not hurt, I will admit... ).

Sophia made some odd lines... just sound like she was reading lines. I didn't feel like I was inside her head; I felt like she was reading lines. And that, had I happened to be standing there beside Beth, I woulda got the same running commentary from her. So it was nothing special, nothing intimate or secretive about Beth. Nor did her tone imply intimacy... Sophia often delivered Beth's lines wonderfully. But I think she missed the concept of the VO... or at least she didn't hit Alex's mark.

And frankly, I was already thrown off-course by the opening sequence and the lack of transition from 12:04, a verrrrrry intimate ending, and so for the VO to be so lacking in intimacy, just distracted me from the story rather than drew me into it. I panicked, watching it the first time, that they were gonna do hers again, rather than Mick's.

I have a question for those who didn't like Beth's POV: Should the scene where Beth finds her prison/room in Coraline's house have been done without a voice over? Would it have made more of an impact without us being in Beth's head?

Well, I thought it added to the scene. But I think we should wait to pursue this particular line till we get to it in the course of the discussion.

wpgrace wrote:

PNWgal wrote:While I found the shift from the end of 12:04 to the beginning of Fleur de Lis a bit jarring, I enjoyed both Beth's V.O. and the episode itself - although I will agree that opening scene could have ended before the staking. It would have made the ending have much more impact if we weren't expecting it.

I get that we are supposed to be seeing Beth's pov here, but I didn't care about it.

A question for you, Grace - did you not care about it because of the way it was presented, or you weren't interested in Beth's POV in general? Since her kidnapping as a child was sort of the catalyst for the Mick/Beth relationship, it was kinda cool to see things through her eyes for a change. It would make sense that Beth would have started putting some pieces together, and I was glad to see her finally start getting angry about what had happened to her.

While I liked the overall episode, no doubt there were some rough spots...but I'll save those to when we cover them.

I think it was the delivery in part, but also the lines... Alex made some odd lines sound good. And he always made it sound so intimate, like we were getting a peak inside Mick that no one else had, not even Josef... and like we had a little insight into his ultimate personality, which was an interesting personality, and not always the one he showed in his actual interactions on screen. I think that's a big part of WHY we all liked the VO device so much... it wasn't JUST Alex's voice... (tho that did not hurt, I will admit... ).

Sophia made some odd lines... just sound like she was reading lines. I didn't feel like I was inside her head; I felt like she was reading lines. And that, had I happened to be standing there beside Beth, I woulda got the same running commentary from her. So it was nothing special, nothing intimate or secretive about Beth. Nor did her tone imply intimacy... Sophia often delivered Beth's lines wonderfully. But I think she missed the concept of the VO... or at least she didn't hit Alex's mark.

And frankly, I was already thrown off-course by the opening sequence and the lack of transition from 12:04, a verrrrrry intimate ending, and so for the VO to be so lacking in intimacy, just distracted me from the story rather than drew me into it. I panicked, watching it the first time, that they were gonna do hers again, rather than Mick's.

I think grace is right here. Perhaps it was Sophia's delivery vs Alex's that made some of the difference. And I also agree there was no smooth transition. Very bumpy.

I'm so pleased you asked that question, Pgal.

I was wondering the exact same thing and was eager to hear from those who don't like the VO if it was about the character of Beth or the line delivery or something else but I didn't quite find the time this afternoon to actually post while at work. So thank you.

And thank you for responding, Grace. I love these discussions for discovering what others make of the same episode and what we all pick up from it and how our reactions can differ to a certain scene.

Good point, not a smooth flow between 12:04 and FDL.
I also found interesting that Mick had accepted the fact that Morgan was who she said she was and had no doubts. This time it was Beth who had all the questions. He is at peace or maybe he is happy that his "secret" with Beth is now in the open, he is her guardian angel and doesn't need to hide it anymore. But he is concerned about Beth's safety IF Morgan is Coraline, he tinks she is dangerous which goes along with his and Josef's comments in the Ringer.

coco wrote:I'm so pleased you asked that question, Pgal.

I was wondering the exact same thing and was eager to hear from those who don't like the VO if it was about the character of Beth or the line delivery or something else but I didn't quite find the time this afternoon to actually post while at work. So thank you.

And thank you for responding, Grace. I love these discussions for discovering what others make of the same episode and what we all pick up from it and how our reactions can differ to a certain scene.

I am fascinated that so many peeps had the same issue with the transition from 12:04 that I did... I thought that was gonna be my little quirk. I was just real disappointed that the intimacy of the balcony scene was so dropped here...

Now I DID like the conversation between Mick and Beth in the car... I loved what they said... I just think there were a few transitional things they also SHOULD have said. In my head, I had to fill those in... and assume that sometime between that balcony scene and the car, they said it. BUT I HAD WANTED TO HEAR IT AND SEE IT TOO.

It is odd that there was not one mention of Morgan in 12:04AM. She was front and center at the end of The Ringer and at the beginning of FdL. So the last thing we see is a sweet, touching scene and then BAM! "Get in the car!" Again...jarring.

I liked that Beth was finally getting mad and facing what had happened to her, although I thought needling him out how the sex with Coraline was was inappropriate and not fair to him. I got that she was trying to work things out but I didn't see where pressing him on that was going to resolve anything for her. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on it because it seemed a bit out of left field for me.