Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby Lilly » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:38 am

Well, even so, GA is absolutely right about the fact the Huerta is led away and then somehow ends up in intensive care. I wonder if the ride back to the station got a little "rough"... :chin:
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby allegrita » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:44 am

Well, the LAPD pays lots of money every year to settle police brutality claims... and Huerta did murder a Deputy DA... I wouldn't be surprised if he got a little "shaken up" on the ride back to HQ... :bash:
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby allegrita » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:05 am

Oh, MAN! The stupid local CW affiliate is showing a preseason football game and it's running LONG! Moonlight might be pre-empted! :witsend:
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby allegrita » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:10 am

GEEZ! The game is over, at least, but now they're blabbing and blabbing about it! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I can't even be happy that Oakland beat Dallas 17-9... I'm too annoyed!

Now they're showing ADS!!! :hankie: :hankie: :hankie: :hankie:
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby LoveBite » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:14 am

jen wrote:I totally agree with Wondergirl.

Quality is quality and the magic remains.

Always bothered me as it detracted from the scene that came after, where Mick tries to save the life of his romantic rival--an intense, emotional scene where three of the major characters really showed their acting ability. That scene, and the scene with Sophia and Alex where Mick comes to Beth's apartment to talk to her. She is submerged in her grief, and perhaps a bit of guilt, as well, and lashes out against Mick, are like two of the most superb examples of acting I have seen in a very long time Alex O'Loughlin is an amazing actor, a true craftsman, but surpassing the acting he did as Mick will not happen every day. The same can be said of Jason Dohring's portrayal of Josef, Sophia Myles' portrayal of Beth and so on, I do not say this in any way detracting from their skills in their chosen craft, but to point out how rare and special these roles, this ensemble and show was.

Jenna

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Oh, I totally agree Jenna. ALL of the actors did a wonderful job in Moonlight. I'm one of Alex's biggest fans, but I truly feel the acting he did as Mick will not happen every day either. He is so talented and gifted. I didn't cry this time around, but was close. :sigh:

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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby allegrita » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:17 am

Sigh... the episode started in progress, with Josh asking Mick to watch over Beth till he can get the team in place.
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby wpgrace » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:22 am

allegrita wrote:Sigh... the episode started in progress, with Josh asking Mick to watch over Beth till he can get the team in place.


:giggle: So you missed the only scene I got to watch... Mick's work out...
Don't know which one of us I feel more sorry for...

This is a very emotionally complicated episode. Beth is having to confront... whatever... it is she is wanting to do or not do with Josh...
And she seems not to really know yet... or more likely, just hasn't quite had the cojones yet to truly make the leap she really wants to make...

Mick seems on the verge of going forward, tho a bit tardy there, as for crying out loud, Vampire, the girl's been sending you mixed signals lately...

Josh, resigned to losing her, is rekindling hope, but THAT woulda never happened. He cannot do the sexy sniffing thing or the sexy jumping thing and we're also back to... LOOK at Mick! The little convo between Josh and Mick about Beth... always a weird moment for me.

And then overwhelming all this weird, complicated, private personal stuff... you get this huge dangerous gang inserting themselves into this incredibly uncomfortable love triangle... it's really quite the explosive ep, isn't it?
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby Lucy » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:11 pm

Moonlightsonata wrote:The music in the scene where Josh is dying is wonderful. I think it is called "Saving Josh" and it is repeated in FTP. However, it wasn't until I saw FTP that I really paid attention to the music - for whatever reason I didn't notice it as much when I saw Love Lasts Forever the first time. Mick really does everything humanely possible to save Josh; Beth is hurtful to Mick at the end, but I wish he would have said something different to her when she asked if it was her, would he have done the same thing? They both hurt one another to some extent in this episode, but as the saying goes, "you always hurt the one you love." Great episode.



The great Trevor Morris wrote that music. He did the score for the Tudors series on HBO....the more you look around the more you'll see Trevor Morris' hand setting up dramatic situations.
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby darkstarrising » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:59 pm

The last four scenes of this episode bring Mick full circle, both man and vamp, and I didn't appreciate that fully until last night.

While the EMTs work on Josh, Mcik stands there, hands bloodied, feeling helpless, not willing to have the vamp 'save' Josh as Beth wants. When Josh finally dies, Beth pushes him away in her anger and grief. Yet I get the feeling that Mick not only wanted to comfort Beth, but be comforted by Beth, to have her understand that he did what he could to save Josh. Yet all that blood and all that anger has awakened the vamp.

At the station, interrogating Bustos, Mick lets the vamp out to find out Tejada. He's enjoying scaring the crap out of this guy.

At the bar, the vamp is loosed to do his worst and again, Mick is enjoying the mayhem he's creating. Those that died, deserved to die and the scene with Tejada's blood on Mick's face really brings to bear just how much a monster the vamp can be, if only Mick would let him. Yet the vamp is far less a monster than the human he's just killed.

In the final scene, he's back with Beth, and while the blood isn't visible on his hands, it's there and it's not just Tejada's. Mick speaks of the terrible things he's done and how he wants to make up for them. There's a half century worth of blood we just can't see, but he can't be held responsible for Josh's death. He's asking for her understanding, to be given a chance, but Beth won't / can't give it to him, not just yet. Her wounds are too fresh and when she asks if Mick would have turned her, note that she doesn't use the word 'turn', rather it's 'save'. And Mick gives her the only answer he could, then, that he would have done the same....for in his mind, and in his experience, being turned isn't being saved. But she can't understand, and once again, she pushes him away, refusing to accept the comfort he could give and to provide the comfort he needed.
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby wpgrace » Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:47 pm

:hankie: :hankie: :hankie:
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby PNWgal » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:38 pm

Yet I get the feeling that Mick not only wanted to comfort Beth, but be comforted by Beth, to have her understand that he did what he could to save Josh.


Spot. On. I never realized until I'd watched LLF a few times, when Josh dies and when Mick goes to Beth at the end, he's not just looking to comfort her. HE needs to be comforted, to be told that he did the right thing - and Beth can't give him what he's looking for.

To be confronted by death peripherally is one thing. To have death handed to you so intimately in the form of a loved one dying under your hands is gut-wrenching, and when it happens, you grab on to whatever hope happens to be close by. Mick was Beth's only hope of saving a dying Josh and, to her thinking, Mick chose to let Josh die rather than "save" him. Beth still can't understand that deep abiding hatred Mick has for that part of him, the part that some would see as "unnatural". Humans die - they're supposed to. I think Mick believes that fully.

For the longest time, I was so angry at Beth for dismissing Mick the way she did at the end, but with time comes understanding. Josh was dead, and she blames herself. Mick coming and looking for absolution - standing there alive when Josh was dead - was unfair and way too much to expect from a woman in mourning.
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby darkstarrising » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:46 pm

PNWgal wrote:Mick coming and looking for absolution - standing there alive when Josh was dead - was unfair and way too much to expect from a woman in mourning.


Agreed. Beth was angry, hurt, trying to process all that had just happened. They were so close to saving him, and to have him murdered like that right before your eyes must have sent her reeling.

One thing I've always tried to understand from this episode is that when Josh dies and Beth pushes Mick away, she runs off and we see her in the background near the water's edge, doubled over. I would have thought that she'd want to stay near Josh, to try to hold onto him somehow, but instead she flees. Has guilt over her own feelings for the two men in her life caused her to 'run away' for a moment or is there something else going on?
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby PNWgal » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:00 pm

darkstarrising wrote:
PNWgal wrote:Mick coming and looking for absolution - standing there alive when Josh was dead - was unfair and way too much to expect from a woman in mourning.


Agreed. Beth was angry, hurt, trying to process all that had just happened. They were so close to saving him, and to have him murdered like that right before your eyes must have sent her reeling.

One thing I've always tried to understand from this episode is that when Josh dies and Beth pushes Mick away, she runs off and we see her in the background near the water's edge, doubled over. I would have thought that she'd want to stay near Josh, to try to hold onto him somehow, but instead she flees. Has guilt over her own feelings for the two men in her life caused her to 'run away' for a moment or is there something else going on?


It had to have - and then to have Mick withhold the ONE THING that would let Josh survive...I can see why she'd be overwhelmed.

I kinda think she's running away from Mick. She has to put distance in between herself and what happened - Josh's death, Mick's refusal to Turn him.

Plus - and I hope this comes across the way I want it to - I think she's wildly disappointed in her guardian angel. He's never really refused her anything to this point...it's been one wild ride after another since they met. Yes, people have died, but they've all been killers or rogues. Beth's pleading with Mick to save Josh and he turns her down - the first time he's ever said "no" to her, and this is so monumental, so HUGE that I think she needs to escape.

It also could be a purely physical thing - maybe she had to throw up. I know I would if I just watched my boyfriend bleed to death right in front of me.
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby darkstarrising » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:20 pm

I've often thought about whether she's throwing up as well (doubled over, off by herself).

I hadn't really thought about this being the first time Mick has really denied her anything. In her mind, he is her guardian angel, keeping her safe from harm, so why couldn't he extend that protection to one she loves? She's got to feel betrayed.

Yet she's got to feel her own betrayal of Josh. I see 'Love Lasts Forever' as a continuation of 'Sleeping Beauty' as least relative to the Mick-Beth-Josh triangle. At the end of SB, Beth has had her first real encounter with the dangerous aspect of loving a vampire and runs back to the safety of Josh. She lets him think all is well, even though she knows differently. In a way she used him as a shield or barrier between Mick and herself. With Josh's death in LLF, there is no longer anyone in between Mick and herself, no one to hide behind. She is running away from Mick right now, because she's not capable to facing the truth of her feelings for him.

As heartbreaking as this episode is, it's still one of my favorites.
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Re: Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 11: Love Lasts Forever

Postby PNWgal » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:30 pm

darkstarrising wrote:I've often thought about whether she's throwing up as well (doubled over, off by herself).

I hadn't really thought about this being the first time Mick has really denied her anything. In her mind, he is her guardian angel, keeping her safe from harm, so why couldn't he extend that protection to one she loves? She's got to feel betrayed.


Exactly. All the ones he's saved while she's known him - basically, strangers to him, yet when faced with saving a good man, he won't do it. I understand where her sense of betrayal comes from, but I think it comes from the fact that in spite of everything she's seen - Coraline being human, Sarah, etc...she still doesn't get that Mick hates what he is.

darkstarrising wrote: Yet she's got to feel her own betrayal of Josh. I see 'Love Lasts Forever' as a continuation of 'Sleeping Beauty' as least relative to the Mick-Beth-Josh triangle. At the end of SB, Beth has had her first real encounter with the dangerous aspect of loving a vampire and runs back to the safety of Josh. She lets him think all is well, even though she knows differently. In a way she used him as a shield or barrier between Mick and herself. With Josh's death in LLF, there is no longer anyone in between Mick and herself, no one to hide behind. She is running away from Mick right now, because she's not capable to facing the truth of her feelings for him.

As heartbreaking as this episode is, it's still one of my favorites.



COMPLETELY agree. I don't doubt for a minute that she loved Josh, but she also started developing feelings for Mick. Josh deserved better than to be used as a safety net, and Beth knows it - I think she feels a horrendous amount of guilt when Josh is killed. If Mick Turns him, he's not really dead, and she doesn't have to blame herself for not being strong enough to tell Josh the truth. She's NOT capable of facing the truth of her feelings, because removing the barrier between her and Mick has come at too high a price - a good man's death.
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