Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 9: Fleur de Lis

Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 9: Fleur de Lis

Postby Phoenix » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:36 pm

Fleur de Lis - episode discussion.

We are all passionate about Moonlight. We all have characters we feel strongly about, either positively or negatively. And of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, in this thread, as in all others, members of this site are expected to be respectful of the opinions of others, and mindful that interpretations of motivations, emotions, and intentions of characters in this beloved story vary.

Discussion is encouraged, but respect for others is required at all times.

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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby GuardianAngel » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:40 am

First, my thanks to Phoenix for the words of caution. I'm sure we'll all get on fine but the reminder can't hurt. :)

Episode Nine: Fleur de Lis


This episode is different from the preceeding ones in that it starts at the end and then backtracks. Also we are privy to Beth's VOs.

Beth is at Mick's door, banging. Her VO is telling us that memories can be fragile, fleeting as whisper one minute and powerful as a scream the next.

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A wet, frazzled Mick lets her in. (And she doesn't even seem to notice which goes to show just how upset she is)

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Beth tells him she has the proof as she shows him a file. And then says 'she's been lying to us. Stalking us'. 'Morgan is Coraline'.

We see see a shot of a foot descending Mick's stairs.

Mick tells Beth he knows she (Morgan) is.

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Mick turns to the person on the stairs. He is obviously not relishing the moment. Beth is upset that Mick knew.

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Beth turns to see it's Coraline descending the stairs. Coraline says 'hello'.

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Beth's VO continues to say that she's spent so long hiding from her past, ignoring the whispers. She then asks Mick how he could do this. He tells her it's not what she thinks (oh, if we had a dime for everytime a guy said that...)

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Beth turns from Mick. Her VO tells us that she remembers everything now, and the screams are the only thing she can hear.

Beth approaches Coraline, suddenly raises a stake and stabs the other female in the chest.

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Coraline lets out a painful yell.

The scene fades and reopens with Beth in her car sitting outside Morgan's building.

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Mick shows up beside the car and startles Beth. He tells her he got her message and asks what she's doing there. She tells him to get in the car.

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He gets in and notices the binoculars on her dashboard. He looks from them to up at the building and then at Beth asking if this seems healthy to her.

As they watch, Morgan is walking back and forth in front of the windows and they can see her remove a robe, leaving her in her bra. Beth comments that she's quite the exhibitionist and when Mick looks, that it got his attention.

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Beth asks him to tell her about his ex-wife. He asks what she wants to know. They have time, she says, so to start at the beginning - how did she become a vampire? He begins telling her - she was Turned in the early 1700s in France. She was a courtesan. Beth takes that to mean she was a hooker. He says she was more a friend of the court.

Morgan is primping. Beth says she still has the moves. Mick reminds her that Morgan is not Coraline.

Beth asks if the sex was good. Mick asks if Beth understands that the woman is not Coraline.

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Beth continues as if she hadn't heard him, saying that it was on and off for 33 years - was it the sex that kept bringing him back (damn, he doesn't answer and I wanted to know the answer to that too!)

He wants to know what's going on. Beth says the woman kidnapped her, terrorized her and almost killed her. He agrees but reiterates that CORALINE did that, not the woman Beth is currently stalking.

She asks if he's 100% sure, without any doubt. As he's looking at Beth and thinking, Morgan comes out from the building and they duck so she cannot see them.

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When she's far enough away they sit back up. Beth tells him that if Morgan is the same woman that destroyed her childhood she wants to know and asks if he can't understand that.

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He says all right and asks what Beth wants him to do. She believes that if they are the same woman there has to be some kind of evidence. Mick, annoyed, tells Beth that it was she that told him Morgan's story checked out. It did, on the surface but now she wants to dig deeper. She tells Mick to keep her occupied and he asks how he's suppose to do that (Oh, come on Mick, think. Think!) Beth suggests he use his Mick St. John charm. What girl can resist (she DOES have a point)? He gives a little laugh.

Mick tells her to listen to him. If Morgan is Coraline, and he emphasizes the 'if', and she should find out Beth was on to her he did not know what Coraline would do.

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Beth promises to be careful. But one way or the other she's going to find out the truth. They both will.

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When I first watched this I didn't know how I felt about how they started this off and with the VO being Beth's. What did you think? And why do you think they did it this way?
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby SirenSong » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:01 am

Personally, I didn't like the Beth V.O. maybe it's because I don't think Sophia's voice is conducive to that kind of work, maybe it was just that we'd been so used to just hearing Mick's voice and thoughts that it just felt.....off. Untimately, I think it would have been better to just not have a VO at all this eppy. The whole point of not having it was so that we wouldn't know what Mick was really thinking about what was going on. No doubt that led to some of the conflict surrounding this eppy. The showing the ending first was fine, much like how they'd started Fever, but I think I would have preferred the action to run in order.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby mwj01 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:23 am

I agree on showing the (almost) ending at the beginning not working for this one. :no: It was kind of a big moment to give away. Did NOT like the Beth v.o. or find it added much, in fact I found it sometimes jarring, because it was so different, I guess. Give me the velvet voiceover or none at all. :snicker:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby coco » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:11 am

I'm probably in the minority here as I know there are lots of people who found the Beth VO off somehow but I actually liked it because I liked being inside Beth's head for this ep. I'll be honest and say I haven't watched this ep a lot in comparison to the others so maybe it will annoy me in time. :snicker: Lots going on and she's piecing things together and I liked hearing her thought process. Sure, it's nothing to a Mick VO but I liked not knowing what he was thinking and getting all the reactions from Beth. It's a tense episode with lots going on and I thought it worked with the scenes we got and backed up what we saw as she got more and more wound up about Coraline/Morgan.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby wpgrace » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:44 am

I thought the opening to this was jarring...
I didn't mind so much the stabbing scene, tho it wasn't as effective as the similar opening in Fever because this time it gave too much away too soon (I mean in Fever, they didn't start with the FEEDING scene and here they started with the big crescendo moment, too much too soon, and no dramatic reason for it)...

But that wasn't my main problem with it. I thought they needed more transition from 12:04 and The Ringer... They needed something more from their dialogue in Beth's car as they stalked Cora. Some link in that conversation to the conversation we had seen at the end of 12:04 and to Beth's new certainty that Morgan was Cora.

The first time I watched I thought for a moment that they had gotten the eps out of order and that this one was supposed to have been aired right after the Ringer. I get that they needed 12:04 first just to establish that Beth now remembers, but these 3 eps now turn out to be linked as part of the discovery of Morgan as Cora, and the dialogue doesn't transition us well... Who wrote this one? Anyone recall?

And I was not interested in Beth's VO.... they had established Mick's VO as our window into the series, and some eps had more, some less of it. They should have just gone with less of it, since they don't want us to know how smart or dumb he is here about Coraline. But Beth's vo was also jarring. Plus, I missed Mick's voice. Just did. Still do. :snicker:

Nonetheless aside from these jarring transitional issues, I really like this ep. Cause again we have Mick contending with his past, handling it with more perpetual cool this time vs The Ringer, but I just love watching him dealing with his dark and mysterious past... :happysigh:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby coco » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:18 am

wpgrace wrote:
The first time I watched I thought for a moment that they had gotten the eps out of order and that this one was supposed to have been aired right after the Ringer. I get that they needed 12:04 first just to establish that Beth now remembers, but these 3 eps now turn out to be linked as part of the discovery of Morgan as Cora, and the dialogue doesn't transition us well... Who wrote this one? Anyone recall?



I think this one was written by Gabrielle Stanton and Harry Werksman although someone else should probably verify as I haven't exactly been stellar with my fact finding lately. :giggle:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby wpgrace » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:28 am

Harry and Gabrielle huh? Need to work on their transitions. AND, at the beginning of this ep, they should've showed Beth going to Mick's place and seeing wet Mick and wet Cora and stopped there! THEN we'd've been wondering all ep, was Mick really back with Cora...

They should NOT have shown the stabbing. Gave too much away too soon. Had they not shown the stabbing in the intro, would've been more dramatic tension and then SHOCK when she stabbed Cora...

Harry and Gabrielle huh?
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby coco » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:39 am

wpgrace wrote:Harry and Gabrielle huh? Need to work on their transitions. AND, at the beginning of this ep, they should've showed Beth going to Mick's place and seeing wet Mick and wet Cora and stopped there! THEN we'd've been wondering all ep, was Mick really back with Cora...

They should NOT have shown the stabbing. Gave too much away too soon. Had they not shown the stabbing in the intro, would've been more dramatic tension and then SHOCK when she stabbed Cora...

Harry and Gabrielle huh?


You've got me worried again that I've got it wrong, Grace. :snicker:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby bluedahlia3 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:24 pm

Beth's VO did nothing for me. It felt off, while Mick's just flows with the script, Beth's pulls me out of the story. I liked the story-line but the entire epi felt like fits and starts to me. I liked the car scene and the 'was the sex good'? question. Meanwhile Mick can't keep his eyes off Cora and he's smart enough to realize that if Morgan is Cora they shouldn't get caught. I rationalized that he too really wanted to know if Morgan was Cora otherwise exposing Coraline is a lot like swimming with a shark. And it was Beth doing the exposing. :gasp:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby news » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:43 pm

No problem with Beth's VO. She was actually the one who decided to go on this journey to begin with. To try to come to terms as to whether Morgan was in fact Coraline. This episode was needed, no problem in viewing it. It was afterall, part of how Beth and Mick both came to terms with their past. The way the show started off was not a problem for me either.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby redwinter101 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:50 pm

I thought Beth's VO was a really good idea - I'm just not sure it worked particularly well. But, like so much of Moonlight, when things didn't quite work, it was because they were aiming high, trying to be different.

I agree with Grace about the beginning, both in terms of giving too much away too early - and also about the way it started, given the end of 12:04. I loved the rooftop scene at the end of 12:04 so much and this just didn't feel like a natural follow-on from that.

However, I did love the car conversation - Mick was very cool here (of course he looked :roll: ) and practical about the possible dangers. And I loved that Beth was actually getting angry about what had happened to her as a child - after all that repression, it felt like about time.

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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby Lilly » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:18 pm

coco wrote:
wpgrace wrote:Harry and Gabrielle huh? Need to work on their transitions. AND, at the beginning of this ep, they should've showed Beth going to Mick's place and seeing wet Mick and wet Cora and stopped there! THEN we'd've been wondering all ep, was Mick really back with Cora...

They should NOT have shown the stabbing. Gave too much away too soon. Had they not shown the stabbing in the intro, would've been more dramatic tension and then SHOCK when she stabbed Cora...

Harry and Gabrielle huh?


You've got me worried again that I've got it wrong, Grace. :snicker:

No, you've got it right, coco -- it was Harry and Gabrielle who wrote this episode. :thumbs:

Like many of you, I too found Beth's VO unsettling -- it just didn't work for me. I think that understanding her thought process was important here, but the delivery didn't quite pull me in and make me comfortable inside her head, the way Mick's always did. I truly believe that an effective voiceover is much more difficult to achieve than most people realize.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby coco » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:29 pm

Thanks, Lilly. :phew:

Red, ITA with you about Beth finally getting angry. It really does seem about time. It's only natural that once she started to piece things together, all her emotions from events past would come into play and it was good to see that on screen. :thumbs:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby wpgrace » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:30 pm

I think that was my problem with it, Lilly...

I get that we are supposed to be seeing Beth's pov here, but I didn't care about it. The voice work... didn't work. At least not for me.
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