Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 9: Fleur de Lis

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby librarian_7 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:20 am

I've said this before...but I have to say that when Mick moved Beth out of the way, he did so carefully. With his strength, if he'd been heedlessly shoving her out of the way, she'd have gone flying the way she did when Donovan Shepherd threw her. Mick was concerned for Coraline, but he wasn't completely forgetting Beth in that moment.

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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby wpgrace » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:32 am

allegrita wrote:Oh grace! :coffee: Now you've gone and made me have to mod myself with all your talk of glisteny, lying appendages! :happysigh: :melts: :hearts:

(Stop it, Allegrita!) :bash: :whoops: :snicker:



Mission TOTALLY accomplished. Nice catch, Alle... :devil:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby GuardianAngel » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:36 am

I got Beth being in the mental state she was in. After just coming from the party house and reliving being held there as a child, finding the photos, realizing Coraline had been stalking her and Mick and being made a fool by befriending Morgan she was at the end of ther rope. I think romantic feelings for Mick and not wanting Coraline to get him back played a part too, albeit a smaller one. This episode was very much about Beth coming to terms with what happened to her and taking control of it. But i don't think Beth would have staked Coraline if she had believed she were human. It was a vampire who kidnapped her. A vampire that married Mick and Turned him. Coraline had played them and as far as Beth was concerned, she still was.

To be honest, I don't know what Beth expected to happen next, other than she would have stopped her. Staking Coraline relieved some of Beth's anger and she ensured that she couldn't 'have' Mick.

That said, I was horrified when she stabbed Coraline. I didn't want to see her die. She keeps Mick conflicted, adds tension and I enjoyed her. I also felt horrible for my poor, glisteny Mick. He wanted that cure so bad.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby PNWgal » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:41 am

allegrita wrote:I have to disagree with you, Pgal. Yeah, Beth's got a definite dark streak. But cold-blooded murder? With a stake?! It doesn't make sense. For one thing, it's hard to ram a pointy stick through somebody's breastbone, especially with 4 layers of shirt fabric in the way. For another, it's really iffy, getting it just right--don't forget, Beth missed her mark.

Why use a stake if you're not going after a vamp? If Beth wanted to murder Morgan/Coraline and she KNEW she was human, she'd have shot her.



Anyone's capable of murder, Alle - given the right circumstances. ;-)

But...I see your point.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby wpgrace » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:47 am

GuardianAngel wrote:
That said, I was horrified when she stabbed Coraline. I didn't want to see her die. She keeps Mick conflicted, adds tension and I enjoyed her. I also felt horrible for my poor, glisteny Mick. He wanted that cure so bad.


Totally feeling you there, Sweetie... Cora brought great fun and complexity to the party, and Mick was so panicked when she was stabbed... tho once you use the term glisteny Mick all the smart words just seem to fly out of my head...
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby allegrita » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:23 am

This is the place for us to discuss Fleur de Lis tonight. See you soon! :wave:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby jen » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:39 am

Should I wait or just go ahead and post something...

From the beginning of NSTAV, we were treated with a rather consistent view of things--Mick as the noble, heroic, guardian of the helpless (with fangs) and Beth--the courageous, truthseeker with the troubled past.

In short, we had learned to tell the good guys from the bad guys without a scorecard, but this episode (at least for me) turned a lot of that on its head--at least for this episode.

Beth was suspicious, jealous and not as attractive here.

Coraline/Morgan just reeked of intelligent, attractive, sparkling sincerity. Just when I had gotten really comfortable disliking the character.

And Mick was caught between the two, pulled in both directions.

(bummer...am I in the wrong place/wrong time again???)

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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby allegrita » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:49 am

No, Jenna, you're absolutely in the right place! Are you watching? I just need to catch up. I absolutely agree that this episode cast Beth in a strange light. She was obsessed, angry, angsty, and determined to dig up the truth, no matter who she hurt in the process.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby jen » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:04 am

Started 50 minutes ago and finished watching the episode.

Without the commercials, the run time is less than an hour.

Somehow, I expected to see Coraline as more of a carricature than a real person--the defining acts we had been given were her kidnapping of Baby Beth to give Mick a family and Turning him on their wedding night: neither of them ringing endorsements of positive traits.

This Coraline/Morgan was smart, sexy, funny, perceptive and got to the heart of a matter quickly with style and wit. I could see Mick falling for someone like that.

We got flashes of jealousy from Beth, which was understandable, but we also got a glimpse of how damaged Beth truly is by her kidnapping when she was four.

We totally saw Mick off balance and doing something that was totally NOT like him when he attacked Morgaline in the cemetery. Tonight, we saw Beth totally off balance and staking her rival for Mick's affection and also the individual responsible for robbing her of a safe, happy childhood.

Understandable? Of course, but not entirely comfortable.

A case study for things not being as they first appeared...

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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby allegrita » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:17 am

That's a great encapsulation of the episode. Morgan was amazingly vital--earthy, funny, snarky, smart, capable. I imagine that poor Beth was completely floored by her--not only was she a rival in the here-and-now, but also she was possibly--probably-- the instrument of Beth's childhood terror. Beth couldn't be rational where she was concerned. She was a threat to everything Beth held dear.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby cassysj » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:24 am

I loved Morgan in this episode. She was smart, charming and fascinating. It was a good contrast to see Beth's flashbacks. This was the first time we really got to see wounded Beth and not survivor Beth. I think that the more time she spent around Morganline the more her memory was resurfacing.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby allegrita » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:32 am

That's a very good point, Cassy. I think Beth just unraveled once she became convinced that Morgan was Coraline. And when she found the proof, she snapped.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby jen » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:39 am

I wonder if one of Coraline's abilities is to get almost anyone to act out of control.

In RL, I worked around an individual a few years ago who was what I'd call a master manipulator. I would stand back and watch her operate and marvel at the deviousness and the effectiveness of her routine.

Didn't want to be her for anything, but she knew how to spin her webs and could catch anything she went after.

I never was able to figure out who this person was under all the masks she wore. Maybe the masks were all there was, and that is entirely another issue, and I never put the two scenarios together until watching Fleur de Lis this evening.

Maybe Coraline was a psychological vampire long before she was a full fledged blood drinking, sun avoiding, creature of the night.

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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby allegrita » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:46 am

Well, by the time we meet her, she's been a vamp for at least 300 years. It's hard to know what kind of person she was when she was human... it was such a long time ago. But certainly, considering the times she lived through, she would have had to learn to be incredibly manipulative to survive as a woman, and a vampire to boot. She'd have to learn the arts of mental and emotional sleight of hand in order to survive the Terror, the torch-bearing mob, and her own, incredibly Machiavellian, family. And who knows when she left France? She hasn't got a speck of an accent. Maybe she's been in America for 200 years or more.... :chin:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby jen » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:54 am

Good points, all. ITA

Coraline had to be a master manipulator to survive. There was no other option.

As for the accent, Josef doesn't have any hint of an accent either. My best guess is that after a couple of centuries involving several moves between cultures, you develop a really good ear and become a bit of a linguist.
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