Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 9: Fleur de Lis

Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby librarian_7 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:51 pm

One other thing I've wondered...I can accept that Beth did not think she could kill Coraline by staking her. Okay, so she has a paralyzed vamp on her hands. What was she thinking would happen next?

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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby PNWgal » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:59 pm

redwinter101 wrote:Beth was kidnapped and traumatised as a child. That seems like explanation enough of why, after finally unblocking the memories of what happened to her, she reacted with such violent force. I don't understand why so determined to make her cold and calculating in this scenario - this was revenge for what happened to her surely? Yes, it was years after the event but in close proximity to the re-emergence of the woman who kidnapped her. I think this counts as a lot more than having her feelings hurt.

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Agreed. Beth had repressed her memories of being kidnapped for so long, when they DID finally start coming to light, I think it's a perfectly natural response to try to hurt the woman that had inflicted the trauma. And - Beth truly believed Morgan was Coraline, ergo, that Morgan/Coraline was a vampire.

Fuel all that with with a dose of confusion, a bit of jealousy and some incredulousness (is that a word?) and it all boils into a stake in the heart.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby coco » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:03 pm

While I don't think the staking was Beth's finest moment, I can sort of see why she would go to that extreme. We've noted from earlier episodes that Beth is still haunted by what happened to her as a child and she is now finally putting the pieces together and has come face to face with the woman who kidnapped her. Plus, Beth had befriended Morgan so feels decieved all over again when she discovers the truth of who Morgan is. Beth is a little out of it here and has been pushed to the limit mentally so she reacts to all the built up feelings with violence. I truly believe she thought she was dealing with a vamp and that staking her wouldn't have killed or injured her to the extreme it did.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby GuardianAngel » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:25 pm

I have some thoughts on the stabbing too. But lets wait until we get there to dicuss it, shall we?


What are your thoughts on Josef's knowledge of Coraline? Do you think there IS a reason other than wrong place, wrong time as to Beth being chosen? And if so, does Josef know what it is? And is he hiding it from Beth? Or from Mick?
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby nutmegger911 » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:16 am

GuardianAngel wrote:I have some thoughts on the stabbing too. But lets wait until we get there to dicuss it, shall we?


What are your thoughts on Josef's knowledge of Coraline?

What Josef knows about her? In a word, volumes.

Do you think there IS a reason other than wrong place, wrong time as to Beth being chosen?

Don't know the answer to this.

And if so, does Josef know what it is? If so, most likely.

And is he hiding it from Beth? If so, definitely. Or from Mick? Ditto.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby allegrita » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:04 am

I think Coraline picked Beth because she had the "right" blood type. I have no idea where the writers were going with that, but I believe there was definitely a reason. This isn't the place to talk about fanfic speculation, but there's plenty of food for thought there...

Did Josef know? I believe that he knew a lot more than he let on. I'd be willing to assume that if there was a reason for Beth to be chosen, Josef knows what it was. And I believe he's definitely holding his cards close to the vest on this. He knows a lot more than he's telling Mick OR Beth. I'm torn as to whether or not he knew Coraline was alive...some days I think he did, and some days I think he really was surprised. That Josef... he's a hard vamp to read. :laugh:
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby wpgrace » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:27 am

GuardianAngel wrote:What are your thoughts on Josef's knowledge of Coraline? Do you think there IS a reason other than wrong place, wrong time as to Beth being chosen? And if so, does Josef know what it is? And is he hiding it from Beth? Or from Mick?


SUCH good questions!

Josef made a point of telling Mick... in The Ringer... that he knew Cora for a hundred years longer than Mick did... so he knows Coraline well, and clearly knows alot more than he's telling Beth... I gotta imagine that at the point where we meet Mick and Josef tho, that Josef has shared pretty much what he knows about Cora with Mick himself. They have clearly had talks about her before. And Josef clearly thinks that Mick is well-rid of Coraline.

However, and this is cheating cause it's in future eps, but I think Josef knows a lot about Coraline's FAMILY that he hasn't shared with Mick... such as the existence of Lance.

And I agree with Alle... the writers were clearly at one point headed in the direction that Cora and Beth share a blood type. But that doesn't mean that JOSEF knows that. He hasn't tasted Beth and they made clear that vamps could NOT tell blood type just from being around a person... they actually (a la Simone) had to taste the blood. So he may truly believe that Beth's abduction was purely luck of the draw...
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby GuardianAngel » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:34 am

Beth decides to go to Coraline's Hollywood house. Her VO tells us she wanted to see the party house for herself. That it's one thing to want to know truth, another to confront it head on. Her mind has spent so long trying to protect her, shielding her from what happened, it was the only way she could feel safe. Even now, something inside her is screaming STOP! But she can't. And she's beginning to wonder if she'll ever feel safe again.

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She picks the lock and enters, looking through the house which looks to be closed up. She wanders into an office and finds photos of her and Mick

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There are 8x10 shots of them from various episodes (AD, Fever, BC, NSTV)

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Meanwhile....

Mick goes to Haggans' son's house to warn him that his father knows about him and the wife.

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He tells him that his father hired him as a P.I. and he wants to talk to him. He's invited in.

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Back at buzzwire, Morgan is listening to the tape that was cleaned up by the sound guy. She listens a couple times because it's still just a bit staticky. But you can hear the son say that they've planned to kill his father but if he finds out he'll kill them first. Uh Oh!

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Mick steps into the house and lo and behold, there on the coffee table is all the stolen survelleince.

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Mick realizes it was HIM, not the father, who broke into his office. Just then Mrs. Haggans steps in and pops one in Mick's head.

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Mick goes down and they say that they can't take the chance of anyone else knowing. They've got to kill Mr. Haggans right away, before he finds out. On the floor, Mick's bleeding profusely.

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I really am not a fan of Beth doing the VOs in this episode but I think it was actually important here. I think we needed to know what she was thinking as she went through that house. This part of the show is VERY much about her - understanding what actually happened to her and why.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby MoonMarg » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:02 pm

librarian_7 wrote:One other thing I've wondered...I can accept that Beth did not think she could kill Coraline by staking her. Okay, so she has a paralyzed vamp on her hands. What was she thinking would happen next?

Lucky


I've often thought about this myself but haven't really come up with anything wise. At this point I don't think Beth was thinking all that clearly or that far ahead. I think she just wanted to hurt the "b***h" and to be honest, lashing out with a stake is the obvious way to do that with a vampire. She probably figured Mick would know what to do next!!! It certainly would have made an interesting scene...I could just imagine Mick...flustered would be an understatement.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby GuardianAngel » Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:25 pm

Again, that scene is for a later discussion. We're almost there.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby GuardianAngel » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:29 am

Worried about Mick, Morgan heads out to Haggans Jr.'s place.


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The door is open but the place is deserted. She knocks and calls Mick's name but there's no anwer. She calls Mick's cell phone.

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And the ring comes from below her, down the desk stairs.

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She walks down there and peers into the leaves, where the ringing is coming from. Mick sits up and scares her (he does that a lot to the ladies. LOL)

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Doesn't he look like a great autumn ornament?

Mick is woozy. He sees that he's bleeding and tells her that they must have hit him from behind (Josef would be proud - ever mindful of protecting the secret).

Morgan wads up her scarf to apply to the wound and says they should get him to a hospital. Mick says no and they proceed up the stairs, Morgan helping him.

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Mick assures her that it's just a scalp laceration, they are worse than they look, err, look worse than they are. They are both aware now that Haggans Sr. is the intended victim and Mick wants to get to him before his murdering son and wife.

Back at the party house, Beth finds a circular stairway and follows it down.

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At the bottom is every little girl's dream playroom and bedroom.

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Beth lets out an "Oh my God." She remembers it.

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It is where she was kept after being kidnapped. We see a flashback of a terrified little Beth sitting on the floor beginning to cry as she hears her kidnapper coming down the stairs.

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Coraline approaches her, puts keys on a table (apparently the door is kept locked) and talks to the little girl in a sweet voice, telling her she needs to go to bed now. She lifts her, the little girls feet kicking, and carries her to bed.

Beth's VO tells us that this is where Coraline kept her. Alone. Locked in the room waiting to meet Mick. She thinks back again. Coraline is putting Beth to bed and the VO continues. She's getting angry, telling us Coraline wanted to lure him back, to make them a family in her deranged mind.

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Coraline talks to the little girl, sweetly, telling her that she needs to sleep because tomorrow's a big day - she is going to meet her new daddy.

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The little girl cries, hugging her teddy bear.

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Beth sits on the bed, taking it in and spies a small, white, spindle rocking chair.

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With determination she grabs it and breaks off a spindle.

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She grabs her bag and runs up the stairs.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby lafluffy » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:53 am

Just happened to see this thread.

What I loved about this ep was Beth's primal rage throughout. She's psychically reliving the trauma of confinement and encounter with Coraline and the events surrounding that. In reliving it there are parts of her that are acting as if she were still that child, a huge motivating factor. Her powerful grown self breaks the spindle of the chair inside the actual prison. And then as that raging child...
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby redwinter101 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:06 am

I have a question that came up last night during watch and chat (thanks to coco). When Morgan found Mick in Haggans' garden, why didn't Mick vamp out? Having lost all that blood, surely that would have been an appropriate reaction (and farewell to any notion of keeping the secret...)?

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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby wpgrace » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:27 pm

redwinter101 wrote:I have a question that came up last night during watch and chat (thanks to coco). When Morgan found Mick in Haggans' garden, why didn't Mick vamp out? Having lost all that blood, surely that would have been an appropriate reaction (and farewell to any notion of keeping the secret...)?

Red



Well... why did he pass out for so long anyway? It wasn't a silver bullet! And coco's is a good question too...

I will add, just to maintain my shallow credentials, that Shannyn got THE best scenes with Alex... they are always touching each other... sigh.
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Re: Fleur de Lis (Episode Nine)

Postby nutmegger911 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:17 am

Total speculation here, but it looked to me like a gunshot wound to the head. I had just assumed it would be as close to losing his head as Mick could get without actually losing his head. Ergo, was okay with longer healing time and associated confusion.

Besides, the worse than it looks comment was fun.
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