...at a minimum!ETA: Yay, Lisa! I think Mr. Fleur gets a big hug and kiss for being so awesome!
And Beth did love Josh. Until Mick, that was her strongest love. Then, she met the one who rocked her world and was her soulmate. Pretty heady stuff.
...at a minimum!ETA: Yay, Lisa! I think Mr. Fleur gets a big hug and kiss for being so awesome!
Then, she met the one who rocked her world and was her soulmate.
Thanks hon!! And, since just about everyone who is anyone is here--I will go off-topic one last time (tee-hee) to say that we are leaving a day earlier for our vacation--Sun. instead of Mon. I will miss you all and try to get on here every now and again to get my fix.coco wrote:Congrats on the laptop and setting it up yourself Lisa
Enjoy it
Then, she met the one who rocked her world and was her soulmate.
No ducking needed SS. No one here will be throwing anything - all opinions and perspectives are welcome and respected.SirenSong wrote:I guess my problem with all of this discussion is how easily people can forgive Beth's behavior. I've never understood it. Yes, Mick isn't perfect, but he certainly thought of Beth's boyfriend and the implications of her coming on to him more than she did. Talk about trying to save someone from themselves. The bottom line for me is that Mick is free, Beth is not. She definitely should have turned Josh free when she realized that she had growing feelings for someone else and certainly when she started more than just flirting (AD). It made Beth unlikable in my eyes. Up until AD, I was thoroughly on the MickBeth love train. But to me, as long as she insisted on keeping good guy Josh in tow, it made her someone I could no longer relate to.
Shall I duck the cutlery now?
Yes, yes, yes!!PNWgal wrote:I don't condone nor justify Beth's behavior. I certainly don't forgive it, but I DO understand it.
You can't argue with love - love doesn't allow it. It swamps you, takes you over, and people get hurt in its wake. Should Beth have handled Josh differently? God yes. But...there's no more uncomfortable place for a woman to be than between two men she loves.
I still maintain that Mick is not blameless in all of this. He had ample opportunity to turn her away or tell her to stay away from him, but chose not to. He couldn't fight his attraction to her any more than she could fight hers to him.
I agree Red. It is indeed extremely human to ignore the needs of our partner when we're falling for someone else. We all make excuses as to why we're doing whatever it is that we're doing. She was definitely human - and who could really resist Mick?redwinter101 wrote:SS, absolutely no need to duck!!! I agree with you to a certain point. I absolutely think she should have cut Josh free much earlier than she (almost) did. I think that's something we can all agree on. I guess it comes down to how you see her as a result of that failure.
For me it's not about forgiving her for that - or condemning her either - I think it's about seeing her as someone who handled a situation very, very badly. And I do think she realised that and regretted.
I have far more issues with some of the character development the writers gave her towards the end of the series - but this one, I find easier to understand and empathise with. She treated a good guy badly. To me, that was a failing - but a very human one.
Red
In agreeance with you both! I wish the writers had shown us a bit of her struggling though to do the right thing - because Mick always does.Fleur de Lisa wrote:Yes, yes, yes!!PNWgal wrote:I don't condone nor justify Beth's behavior. I certainly don't forgive it, but I DO understand it.
You can't argue with love - love doesn't allow it. It swamps you, takes you over, and people get hurt in its wake. Should Beth have handled Josh differently? God yes. But...there's no more uncomfortable place for a woman to be than between two men she loves.
I still maintain that Mick is not blameless in all of this. He had ample opportunity to turn her away or tell her to stay away from him, but chose not to. He couldn't fight his attraction to her any more than she could fight hers to him.
And I am sure a few of us have been in a position where we may have strung a guy along far past the point when we should have cut him loose. I see that as a distinctly human behavior. Not a moral one, but very normal nonetheless.
But doesn't that keeping Josh as a fall-back position kind of go against how everyone sees Beth too? What I mean is that time and again, people describe Beth as being so gutsy ans such a strong woman, but if you're saying that she kept Josh around because she didn't want to be alone, that greatly diminishes that ballsy woman everyone wants to picture her as being.redwinter101 wrote:One more thing on Beth not cutting Josh loose, I do think there was an element of not wanting to end up with no-one. She knew the chances of getting something long-term with Mick were shaky, no matter how much she wanted him and if she'd ended things with Josh, there was a real chance she would have been alone.
That really is a harsh thing for her to have done - kept him around as her fallback position - but I also think, again, that it's a very plausible scenario and I do think it was brave of the writers not to make her pure as the driven snow.
And coco, we can share our fury once we get to those episodes .
Red
Yes...we've all been there I think. I think if Mick had given her the option up front she would have ditched Josh in a second. Poor Josh was in the unenviable position of being the second place getter - and should have been ditched for those reasons alone as a kindness to him.GuardianAngel wrote:No ducking needed SS. No one here will be throwing anything - all opinions and perspectives are welcome and respected.SirenSong wrote:I guess my problem with all of this discussion is how easily people can forgive Beth's behavior. I've never understood it. Yes, Mick isn't perfect, but he certainly thought of Beth's boyfriend and the implications of her coming on to him more than she did. Talk about trying to save someone from themselves. The bottom line for me is that Mick is free, Beth is not. She definitely should have turned Josh free when she realized that she had growing feelings for someone else and certainly when she started more than just flirting (AD). It made Beth unlikable in my eyes. Up until AD, I was thoroughly on the MickBeth love train. But to me, as long as she insisted on keeping good guy Josh in tow, it made her someone I could no longer relate to.
Shall I duck the cutlery now?
To a degree I agree with you. Once Beth started having feelings for Mick she should have been honest with Josh. I think her problem was Mick continually telling her that there was no hope of a relationship between them. So, on the one hand she has this undeniable connection with the vampire (although she doesn't even fully understand why). On the other hand, there is no future for them. Does she cut Josh loose while she still can't make heads or tails of exactly what this is between her and Mick? She's confused, and I think understandably so. Morally, and ethically she should have broke up with him. But its never that easy.
Congratulations Lisa! I've been looking at those mini laptops myself.