Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 3: Dr. Feelgood

[wpgrace]

You had me until that last word!

As much as I dislike Cora, there is no doubt in my mind that he thought that he loved her. It may have been over-riding lust, or even deep love---another reason that subsequent seasons were needed to flesh all that out.

I'm not going to disagree with you, Lisa - I think Mick DID love Coraline.

But I think he loved Beth differently.

Yes, the two women represent different things... and he loved them both... I think he still loves Cora... but yes, loves them differently. THere is more passion with Cora... not that there is no passion with Beth.... but it's different. He IS a vamp. Will that be enough for long term or for forever? We don't know, but the fanfic writers can take this anywhere now... so cool on that score.

And, yes I think he blamed Cora for turning him... but he didn't blame her in that he thought she did it for evil purposes... He blamed her for not asking him... for not giving him the choice, for making an assumption that screwed his life up...

He got that she loved him... but it wasn't really how he wanted to be loved and treated... and she wasn't what he thought and he wasn't what she thought. They miscalculated with one another , which people do all the time but it doesn't normally get them undead... it may saddle them with kids they don't want or debt they can't pay... but usually you don't wind up undead forever. Stiff price to pay for not knowing your fiance well enough. But they tried to stick it out. She still wants to try; he doesn't, right now. He has found Beth... Cora apparently has only re-found Lance, which is no bargain. Clearly.

[nutmegger911]

LOL, grace...I shall behave myself as befits a mod.

*gently kicks Lisa under the table*

Ahem. I wanna talk a little about Mick's Turning. We always want to make Coraline out to be this evil bi...errr, person, but I truly think she thought she was giving Mick a gift. She couldn't have anticipated Mick's disgust and horror.

Sorry Ladies, but I have to disagree. Cora did, in fact anticipate Mick's reaction. If she genuinely thought he would be OK with "livin' the un-vida loca" she would have shown him her true nature before they got married. She didn't. In fact, she didn't let him in on the secret until she turned him.

Maybe she was afraid. But her fear of his rejection demonstrates her anticipation of his disgust and horror. She gave up her right to go with the wide eyed innocent look when she pulled that stunt. IMHO (Just sayin)

[wpgrace]

LOL, grace...I shall behave myself as befits a mod.

*gently kicks Lisa under the table*

Ahem. I wanna talk a little about Mick's Turning. We always want to make Coraline out to be this evil bi...errr, person, but I truly think she thought she was giving Mick a gift. She couldn't have anticipated Mick's disgust and horror.

Sorry Ladies, but I have to disagree. Cora did, in fact anticipate Mick's reaction. If she genuinely thought he would be OK with "livin' the un-vida loca" she would have shown him her true nature before they got married. She didn't. In fact, she didn't let him in on the secret until she turned him.

Maybe she was afraid. But her fear of his rejection demonstrates her anticipation of his disgust and horror. She gave up her right to go with the wide eyed innocent look when she pulled that stunt. IMHO (Just sayin)

That's her fear of his rejection of her, as a mortal having fear of a vamp... that's not the same thing as realizing his nature, which she didn't, and thinking he wouldn't adjust.

I think she may have worried he wouldn't like her as a vamp; it might scare him, whatever... so she turned him unawares... but I believe she thought he'd come around... that when he saw and felt the power of it, he'd be into it. She saw the good parts of it herself... like Josef, she LIKED what she was. She just really DIDN'T know Mick... or maybe she couldn't. Their natures were sufficiently different she just couldn't fundamentally account for his POV. It didn't resonate with her....

I think Mick was far better able to come to see her POV... He still resented what she'd done, but he didn't think she did what she did out of cruelty. She was often indifferent to the suffering and feelings of others... there are some humans like that. But Josef could be the same... human life didn't count the same with him either, as it did for Mick. SO part of that is a vamp thing.

[nutmegger911]

I don't think he thought she was trying to be cruel. But how do you deal with such a fundamental betrayal?

If she didn't do it out of malice pretty much all he is left with is crazy. Even so, the fact that she is crazy doesn't make it all better for him.

[wpgrace]

I don't think he thought she was trying to be cruel. But how do you deal with such a fundamental betrayal?

If she didn't do it out of malice pretty much all he is left with is crazy. Even so, the fact that she is crazy doesn't make it all better for him.

Well that is the question, you're right. Tho not crazy I think... more callous disregard for the feelings of others. I see it in part as a result of who she was and when she was... we are all products of our upbringing no matter how long we live. ANd we all assume that about Mick... that he is a product of early 20th century AMerica... heartland values, member of the Greatest Generation and all that. Well I think Cora is a product of her youth too, tho it's been a few more years ago. She's an old vamp, but her own time (assuming she didn't totally lie about this) was the early 1700s in France... a time when aristocrats literally believed that the underclasses didn't feel as deeply as themselves... and wouldn't have cared if they had. God gave them the privilege of birth and class and didn't give it to the losers. Think of the dinner scene with her 6 brothers.

So I think Cora maintained, even after over 100 years in America, that aristocratic sense of privilege and a bit of lack of empathy. She just didn't have it.

She loved Mick. She wanted Mick. Mick's feelings were less material for her. And she was a femme fatale. I think she likely believed she could bring him around, given enough time. And forever is a lot of time.

But in the end, tho not in this ep, she did sacrifice herself for him... she loved him and couldn't bear to see him die. Is that crazy? We usually admire that behaviour. It wasn't characteristic of her... but I think it does show her depth of love for him. But that is probably best kept for TMC, huh????

[allegrita]

Folks, I adore this conversation and would love to continue it, but this thread isn't the place to do it. Let's get back to talking about the episode...

[wpgrace]

Sorry Alle... it came about because of his flashback in this ep to his turning...

Herding cats, you know?

But then ep discussions must have been easier back when no one know what would happen on the next one!!!!

ANyway, I thought they did a great job of slowly showing us his relationship with Cora on the series.

From eps 1-3, we get a little more information every time. Not until The Ringer do we get the full story... and really not until Redwinter do we get the full story... but little by little we learn more about Mick and Coraline... just as little by little, he and Beth begin to inch their way towards a relationship. A parallel if you will...

Ok now, Alle?

[allegrita]

Oooooh--beautiful summing-up! I'm sooooo impressed. And I agree with you, too.

On that subject, I think this ep did a great job of comparing Mick's relationships with Beth, Josef, and Coraline. You also started to get a feel for Mick's history and his place in his world--and the level of respect he garnered from various important people (e.g., the Cleaner). You also started to get more appreciation of his competence as both a detective and a member of the vampire nation.

You also learned that Mick gives the other guy the benefit of the doubt to a fault, which gets him beat up. A lot.

I agree that the doctor wasn't the best villain, but I really like this episode for many reasons, not the least of which is the incredible scene at the end...

[Fleur de Lisa]

I agree that the doctor wasn't the best villain, but I really like this episode for many reasons, not the least of which is the incredible scene at the end...

Yes, indeed.

This episode really highlighted relationships. Whether they be between Josef and Mick, Mick and Beth, Mick and Cora--it really detailed how dangerous, difficult, and complicated all of these relationships are. I know that the friendship between the boys seems the easiest, and it very well may be, but they are 2 who have far different views of their situations and have done the most as far as respecting each other's nature.

And the pork bun repetitive mentioning really bugged me.
Had to throw that out there.

[wpgrace]

I liked the pork bun scene! I thought he was cute with that rocket scientist... which, btw, who turned THAT guy? You couldn't PAY me... but I digress...

I loved Mick's line about What did you eat... and by what... I mean who... I thought that whole conversation was clever and cute and subdued... given that he was really punking the guy and wanting to get info on the feral. It was like he was talking to a child... hence the repetition, Fleur... child-like repetition, lulling him into a false sense of security... the rocket scientist was not great with his people or conversational skills...

And yes, the end scene of this one is amazing, Alle... again. They so often are.

When he touches her hand... well, how she just stood there without falling flat down, I dunno. And then he struts off. I'll bet. Mission accomplished. She will never look at Josh the same way again...

[Fleur de Lisa]

Ugh, creepy professor dude was the one that gave me the willies everytime he said pork bun in that weasley little voice of his. I got the context of the scene, I just hated that man's voice saying "pork buns." Wanted him staked for it.

[wpgrace]

Ugh, creepy professor dude was the one that gave me the willies everytime he said pork bun in that weasley little voice of his. I got the context of the scene, I just hated that man's voice saying "pork buns." Wanted him staked for it.

Wellllll I believe the Cleaner will do at least that... so your wish is her command. And she's wearing leather... even more scary.

Tho HOW did that dude get turned anyway? Some evil vamp's twisted joke? Surprised Josef lets him continue on uglying up the vamp pool...

[Fleur de Lisa]

I know!! Get some plastic surgery, have the Queer Guys give you a make-over, THEN get turned.

Sheesh, people, get a clue.

[wpgrace]

I know!! Get some plastic surgery, have the Queer Guys give you a make-over, THEN get turned.

Sheesh, people, get a clue.

Besides, he will eventually have to relocate and change jobs... he's gonna suck as an Abercrombie and Fitch model...

[Fleur de Lisa]

..you just made me throw up a little in my mouth


Please, let's move on from Mr. Weasel Pork Bun Vamp.