Moonlight Episode Discussion - Ep 1: NSTAV

[nutmegger911]

Hi, Kade. Welcome to the board.
I don't normally hop into the episode discussions, but your post caught my attention. You raise some good questions about the first episode. Some of them were "plot holes" for many, others folks didn't seem to be bothered by. Many folks here don't watch much television at all because they find the "plot holes" in most television shows are too distracting.

Maybe the most important question is "What is it about this show that keeps folks watching despite some jarring moments from a "plot hole" view? Is it the characters? Their interactions with each other? Their potential? Or is it the themes explored? Love? Betrayal? Redemption? Romance? Immortality? Maybe it's just eye candy. Who knows? One thing we do know is the network chose to stop writing and producing the show, but the fans have continued. (which leads me to believe it's not just eye candy)

What is it that keeps the fan base alive? I don't know, but I suspect the fanfiction helps.

In exploring the episodes the fans have come up with their own answers (and sometimes more questions). When someone makes a story of their explanation it can be quite an adventure in itself.

Grace (and others) make a wonderful point. There are many talented writers here and reading their work may help answer your questions or inspire you to write a story showcasing how you imagine it should have, could have, might have happened.

Keep asking questions, and keep asking yourself why it is certain things stuck out in your mind. It is just these things that inspire many of the fan-written stories. Welcome to the board.

[Kade1301]

Professor Ellis was so non-threatening, it was totally believable that Beth would get away from him.

You are not saying that Beth would only get away from a wimp? I mean if Mick kept his guns loaded with silver bullets (more on that later), Beth would have taken care of that vampire plastic surgeon herself (I'm always impressed by how fast she picks up the gun and shoots - and hits!).

Actually, one of the things I love about the show is that Beth is not just decoration and romantic interest - she has her life and her work and saves Mick's life about as many times as he saves hers. That's definitely one of the reasons why I kept watching.

But what did all those students see in Professor Ellis?????

O yeah, I thought of another possible plot hole: Why does Beth have to give the blood vial to the police? They just spent all day searching the apartment (and why did the police not have the car towed?). On the other hand, based on real-life experience it's hard to underestimate the intelligence of certain members of the police force. So them not noticing car and vial might be one of the more realistic parts of the episode

Regarding plot holes in other episodes: I guess I should admit that there's very few shows I watch. And in most cases I don't follow through to the end (stopped X-files when it seemed to be all about the conspiracy, found Lost too bizarre somewhere in season 2 or 3, even got slightly fed up with ER). I think that part of the appeal of Moonlight is that it DID end after just one short season, when we were all still hungry for more. I even have the feeling that I wouldn't have liked the direction it would probably have taken in a second season...

Bye, Kade

[coco]

Actually, one of the things I love about the show is that Beth is not just decoration and romantic interest - she has her life and her work and saves Mick's life about as many times as he saves hers. That's definitely one of the reasons why I kept watching.

ITA, Kade.

Beth is my favourite character, besides Mick. I just think she's wonderful. I loved that she did as much to help Mick as he did her. She has flaws like the rest of us. She definitely made me want to keep watching ML...... again besides Mick.

[darkstarrising]

I think that part of the appeal of Moonlight is that it DID end after just one short season, when we were all still hungry for more. I even have the feeling that I wouldn't have liked the direction it would probably have taken in a second season...

Bye, Kade

Hi Kade,

Many will agree that some of the plot lines floated for the second season weren't very appealing, but I think they would have taken a second season, warts and all. Perhaps the show would have died under its own weight of poor storylines in year two. Perhaps is was kinder all the way around to not have it die like that, but even so, I'd rather have had the opportunity to see it and walk away than to have it yanked away and be left hanging with so many questions.

[wpgrace]

Grace, surely you're not suggesting that we have a collective tendency to over-analyse?

Red

Oh nononononononononono! I think we analyze JUST enough... every single time.

[nutmegger911]

Aww, and I thought you were going to say, Nooooo, unless they really ask for it.

[wpgrace]

Aww, and I thought you were going to say, Nooooo, unless they really ask for it.

Ohhhhhh... THAT line! In THAT voice... totally got me on that one, NM.

[Kade1301]

but I think they would have taken a second season, warts and all.

So would I, definitely! But not necessarily a third, and fourth, and ... up to 15th (and I do admit I got slightly fed up with E.R. ...)

Bye, Kade

[r1015bill]

I think that part of the appeal of Moonlight is that it DID end after just one short season, when we were all still hungry for more. I even have the feeling that I wouldn't have liked the direction it would probably have taken in a second season...

Bye, Kade

Totally agree with you Kade!!! I watched when it was first broadcast. I remember thinking at one point, "If Mick asks Beth if she's okay one more time, I'm going to barf!" Then I heard that it might not get renewed... Everything changed.

I would have loved a second season of similar stories, but if they really were going into werewolves or some sort of war with vampires, I think they would have lost me.

[jen]

Great discussion!

When I saw a promo for the show, I remember saying to myself, I should check that out. This was when it aired on the Sci Fi Channel on starting on 01/23/09. I was fascinated by the first episode--Alex O'Laughlin was attractive, yes, but just as much as his looks (to me) was what a sweetheart he was--vulnerable, romantic, open, sensitive and he had a wonderful sense of humor. The chemistry between the characters was wonderful (MickJosef friendship was casual and relaxed, MickBeth was lushly romantic and totally charming, the supporting characters were good, as well. Loved, loved, loved the voiceovers. They were a major factor for me and Alex O'Laughlin has a wonderful voice.

I loved the new take on vampires in the show--that vampires were essentially an offshoot of humanity in an altered state. It was a medical condition, probably due to infection with some kind of virus. Never was much of a vampire fan before Moonlight.

Wasn't a fan of things like Mick staring out blankly while driving and doing a voice over (this was when he said something about not originally intending to be a do gooder. or something like that). I think someone else mentioned that earlier. I agree. Why they did most things so well and a couple of things so badly, I will never understand.

But the acting was wonderful.

At the end of the first episode, I knew I wanted to watch it again, but I wasn't hooked. I hoped that (a) that Beth would find out that he was a vampire; (b) Mick and Beth would really get together (yes, I am rather slow); and (c) that this was not a Forever Knight remake and it would not end the same.

After OOTP, I was in a little deeper. The ending of that episode contained a riveting performance by Alex O'Laughlin. I was sure that I would be watching DF and the chemistry was amazing. Then, there was Fever and Moonlight had become 'must see' television. My Friday nights were committed and I was sending emails to the Sci Fi channel supporting the show.

I have heard little bits of information that are really fascinating. I remember in the early episodes, Mick could inject a small amount of blood into his arm, his eyes would flash red and he acted like it felt like a drug. In another place it was said that he could smell the past and glimpse the future. I read that these were done away with. Does anyone have any knowledge of what was changed in the course of the series? Also, I just read something about some ideas that were going to be explored in the second season were discussed. I would love to hear more about this!!! Please?????

Sorry for the longwinded post.

[MoonMad]

Hi Jen,

It's wonderful to hear thoughts on ML from people who only saw the show fairly recently. You're lucky you didn't have to live through the heartbreak and anxiety we did at the time. It nearly sent most of us crazy - we couldn't believe it could happen after we were told a lot of stuff that made it sound like a second season was a done deal.

A lot was found out about the backstage dramas after the cancellation, but before that some of the writers spilled a few things during the Moonlight Con which was held in the same month the show was cancelled.

I'm not quite sure how we found out certain things, but some of the things you mentioned in your post are easily explained.

There are several scenes in the first episode that were actually filmed back when the show was going to be set in New York and before all the cast was changed (except for Alex). Specifically the scene you mentioned where Mick looks off into the distance and his V.O. talks about not always wanting to be a do-gooder. The reason that scene looks 'off' is because they were going for a film noir feel so they shot the car against a blue screen (just like you'd see in an old Humphrey Bogart film of the 1940's). It was an effect they dropped fairly quickly. IMO it really didn't work with the modern feel of the show and obviously others agreed because most people thought it was just a cheap effect and they didn't understand what the producers were going for. Another scene I know that came from the original pilot is the scene where Mick is standing on the rooftop in his long coat, doing another V.O. which again was going for film noir, but just ended up sounding clunky.

I think it's generally accepted that CBS (or their viewers?) disapproved of the injecting the blood intravenously and so it was dropped after the first episode. If you read Trevor Munson's "Angel of Vengeance" that ML was based on, you would see that Mick was a junkie who, after becoming a vampire, kept up the injecting thing (probably because he didn't want to let go of his habit) but it didn't work too well with the re-written show which was a lot less dark than both the book it was based on and the original pilot presentation that never saw the light of day. They were also going to give Mick the ability to "see" vampires differently to how he saw humans - kind of an infrared thing, but they dropped that before it ever got to air. Cost cutting on CGI I think. (It was shown in a scene from a promo). "Sensing the past and glimpsing the future" was also something that they decided to drop. Perhaps they just wanted Mick to be more 'human' and less 'superhuman'. I don't know. But we saw it when Mick was investigating little Beth's disappearance in the flashback, and also when he was investigating the creation of the rogue vamp in Dr Feelgood.

Money was always an issue for this show, which is why we saw silly wax "ice cubes" in the bathtub in Fever - it was a pay-off so they could pay for a police car to get blown up. The first episode was sort of cobbled together and done quickly I think. The episodes improved writing wise IMO, but it was said that the show suffered from a lack of cohesive show running. They went through four or five of them and by the end Joel Silver himself was doing it, but Alex said he was pretty much absent from the set because he had too much going on. They were all over the place and trying to find ways to improve the ratings which were only borderline acceptable by CBS standards.

The general consensus is that CBS wanted season two to become more procedural because they have great success with their procedurals, but rumour has it that the producers actually wanted to make the show even more supernatural by introducing werewolves (Talbot was going to be one) and by having the vampires and the werewolves band together against the Legion (who gave the list to Talbot at the end of Sonata), who were a band of humans who culled vampires through the centuries when their numbers became too large in one place (in this case L.A.). That is unconfirmed though and has never been discussed publicly by anyone from the show.

I don't know how this change would have been accepted by ML's audience. I know most of us would have given it a shot, but I can't see it as being something CBS would have embraced. Can't be sure about that though, it's just supposition. Many of the fans felt that the last four episodes that came after the writers' strike had a distinctly different feel to them, and some weren't happy about that. Like Kade said upthread - perhaps it's best it ended when it did. It could have gone downhill very quickly. But I guess that could be said of most shows. I know I would have preferred to have the opportunity to get sick of it and just stop watching, rather than have had it wrenched away from me. But what's done is done, and there's no going back.

[librarian_7]

Actually the "Legion" stuff, although not the werewolves, was discussed by Harry Werksman in public, at the LA Moonlight Con in May, 08. Not, admittedly, in public as "to a journalist" but he did go on about it for some time to a large group of die-hard fans, so it was promptly reported online.

(And this is not second-hand information; I was there.)

Lucky

[aolver]

What a wonderful post MoonMad. Thank you for some info I was not aware of. Makes me sniffle a little when I think of possibilities lost because of burecratic politics behind the scenes, that I was blissfully unaware of. So nice to hear we picked up viewers during the SyFy run, and wish we could have gotten these new viewers from the beginning. But at least they are on board now and know what we have known all along, that no matter the faults, ML was special, and I will always love it. Maybe we'll pick up more converts during the future airings.

[MoonMad]

Actually the "Legion" stuff, although not the werewolves, was discussed by Harry Werksman in public, at the LA Moonlight Con in May, 08. Not, admittedly, in public as "to a journalist" but he did go on about it for some time to a large group of die-hard fans, so it was promptly reported online.

(And this is not second-hand information; I was there.)

Lucky

Oh, thanks for that Lucky. I had probably heard that but forgot about it. So it just reinforces the other stuff we heard through third parties (werewolves).

aolver, thanks for the kudos about my post, but really I'm just saying stuff most of us knew anyway. It seems so far back now that most of us don't even talk about it anymore, but when you realise what a struggle it was for the show right from the get-go, you can understand how it happened to get cancelled so soon. I heard there were battles about money too between JS/WB and LM/CBS and as it cost CBS a pretty penny to buy the show, asking for more when it was only borderline cost effective, seems to have been the final straw - but I have to stress that was only third hand info again, and never talked about publicly by TPTB. Alex has mentioned in interview about a couple of 'big egos' putting the kibosh on ML, and I strongly believe this is what he was talking about, but again, that's just my take on it.

[Kade1301]

Thanks for your explanations, MoonMad! It may be stuff that most of you knew anyway - but for us newcomers it's new and exciting! Gotta watch ep. 1 again looking out for the blue-screen scenes...

Funnily, the "smelling the past and glimpsing the future" has never bothered me - I always took it to mean that vampires have a better sense of smell than humans (who have a really bad one, compared to most other animals - or who just don't use it as they could). And for example a dog knows who has passed where - so why shouldn't a vampire?

The glimpsing the future thing is a bit more difficult to explain (even though I'm pretty sure that a martial artist would see an attack coming long before I did) - but it doesn't work for Mick, anyway. The phrase just made a nice transition to "hearing a marriage going down the drain from a 100 yards" (again, nothing too extraordinary - normal human hearing is rather bad).

Bye, Klara