Origins of Josef's Surname

Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby Hope91 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:12 pm

Hi everyone, Hope91 here.

I'm in little bit of a pickel, I was wondering if someone could tell me about the origins of Josef's surname? I'm writting a brief one-shot fic about his life and that includes where he was born and raised.

If anyof you Moonlightaholics or Josefites can help me out, I would much appreciate it. :ghug:

Thank you.


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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby Josefismysire » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:11 pm

Our resident Josef expert is librarian_7 (or Lucky, as we like to call her) She is his #1 Freshie and his autobiographer and scholar extraordinaire. She's be the one to go to! :rose:

Having said that, there is lots and lots of Josef-centric fic with many different viewpoints and ideas about his origins, turning and past lives...so anything you can imagine can be the truth!! Go for it!!

Looking forward to reading your piece when it's finished!

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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby librarian_7 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:57 pm

Hey, Hope...I heard my name was invoked.

I think a lot of people have assumed an Eastern European origin for Josef, both because (at least to Americans) the name Kostan sounds vaguely Eastern European, and when the spelling "Josef" is added...that makes it even more so.

Of course, we also have the fact that his name was originally supposed to be "Konstantin." It was this way on the CBS website for a long time, and we didn't ever actually hear the name until "Sleeping Beauty." Even then, there was considerable argument as to whether it was Kostan or Konstan. (And I know some fic writers who stubbornly stuck to the Konstan spelling, even after Trevor Munson himself said it was Kostan.)

Okay, I did some checking in old US Census records just now, and the 1910 and 1920 censuses show a number of Kostans, with a variety of countries of origin, including: Austria, Hungary, Romania, Greece, Slovakia, Germany, Russia, Poland, Bohemia,and Italy.

Austria and Hungary seem to lead the pack. So an Eastern European origin seems not unlikely.

However, many have surmised that "Kostan" may not be his original surname, and that gives rise to some creativity. We have stories about an Italian "Guiseppe Costanza," an Irish "Joseph Constantine," and others.

Curiously, someone did find a record of a Joszef Kostan immigrating to America in 1914...he was a 59 year old Hungarian. (So not our Josef, unless he was wearing a disguise!) But interesting, nonetheless.

Bottom line here,there's not really canon to guide us on Josef's point of origin. If you can make a good case for it, we'll accept it. And what works best for building your interpretation, is probably how you should go.

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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby francis » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:11 pm

I agree with what Lucky wrote (she's the expert). I want to throw in another thought: In the 1950s he went under the name Charles Fitzgerald. Now who can say which name is more like his original real name? His real name could be something totally different. He could probably have a name like Karl Josef and alternate his Christian names with various surnames and in various spellings. Or he could just make them up on the spot. So, we're back to fantasy and everything's allowed. :teeth:
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby r1015bill » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:21 pm

See Hope, I told you this was the place to ask!
Glad to see my understanding of the canon agrees with Lucky. I'll throw in that besides having to be somewhere with torch bearing mobs, he also had to be some place where the plague was common. Remember this favorite line "You know prom wasn’t really big back in the 1700s. High school either. The plague, the plague was big."

While it's sad we know so little about Josef's history from the show, it does make fertile ground for fanfic writers!

edited for missing words.
Last edited by r1015bill on Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby librarian_7 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:22 pm

That's why I've written historical Josef fic with a variety of names...not only Charles Fitzgerald, but Josef Fitzgerald, and Robert...and Josef Alexander, and Josef Constantine...and so on.

Just for grins, and this may be good for a fic sometime, here's that immigration list I mentioned. I circled a certain name, just for ease of reference... :whistle:

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The record was obtained from Ancestry.com, to which my library subscribes.

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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby darkstarrising » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:25 pm

Cool!! It somehow adds more to fictional characters when they can be linked back to something historical.

thanks Lucky for the scan as well as the background info...
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby librarian_7 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:27 pm

You're welcome...I think it may have been JIMS who first discovered that a "Joszef Kostan" immigrated. I worked from that tidbit.

And my library has access to some wicked cool databases. :evillaugh:

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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby eris » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:32 pm

If you go with Eastern European, and the original Konstantin, that in itself gives a clue as to who a character like J would have been when he was born. Konstantin was a noble family name in Romania around the time of the latter descendants of Vladislav Tepes... who lived around the canon dates for Josef's birthdate :teeth:
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby nutmegger911 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:07 pm

Hope,
There seems to be a strong and persistent fanon that Josef's current name is related to his original name. However, there is no actual canon on the point. If you have a compelling story, folks will read it.

ETC typo :roll:
Last edited by nutmegger911 on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby Josefismysire » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:14 am

librarian_7 wrote:You're welcome...I think it may have been JIMS who first discovered that a "Joszef Kostan" immigrated. I worked from that tidbit.

And my library has access to some wicked cool databases. :evillaugh:

Lucky


'twasn't me, Lucky..but thanks for the nod.

The bottom line is, Hope, that Josef can be anyone you want him to be. Isn't that the glory of it? :hearts:
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby eris » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:53 am

Off-Topic, but:

JiMS, I totally stole your Snowman sig-line for use on another forum :teeth:
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby moonlight_vixen » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:09 am

Oooh, Lucky, thanks for that scan you added in your reply above! Totally cool... :twothumbs:
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby Josefismysire » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:55 am

eris wrote:Off-Topic, but:

JiMS, I totally stole your Snowman sig-line for use on another forum :teeth:


Oh eris honey..you are more than welcome!! Glad you liked it!! :smooch:
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Re: Origins of Josef's Surname

Postby Catmoon » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:38 am

nutmegger911 wrote:Hope,
There seems to be a strong and persistent fanon that Josef's current name is related to his original name. However, there is no actual canon on the point. If you have a compelling story, folks will read it.


Very true. I think that's because of the fact that those of us who were into the show from the beginning were led to believe his name was Konstantin, and so it was like they suddenly changed it on us ten episodes in. We'd grown fond of it, so it was a natural progression to decide that Kostan was a shortened form of it, and it was his original name (although in my own universe it's turned out to actually be Alexei). Plus Josef is a bit of an unusual spelling, for a vampire who sounds totally American and trying to blend into 21st century America. At least that was my own reasons. But of course since there's no real canon about his past, anything goes, really! It would be totally boring if we all wrote the same backgrounds for him. I love that we have so many different interpretations.

It's fun naming Josef! Actually, my Josef turned out to be: Kynaz Josef Konstantin Romanov (/Alexei). :snicker:
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