Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

A deeper discussion of Vampire Mythology

Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby SirenSong » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:41 am

I like most of the ML vamp mythology. Certainly it was much more realistic than most vamp stories/movies/TV shows. The no pics before digital thing still bothers me because it makes no sense as to why they couldn't be captured on film. Yeah, yeah...I know silver in the emulsion. But what does that have to do with capturing an actual beings image undead, dead or alive? Dead people showed up in old photos, so why not vamps? Other than that and maybe the ridiculous portrayal/CG work of the super running speed, I had no problem with the other aspects. I was glad to see that they dropped the "I can smell the future" thing that Mick eluded to in the first eppy. That would have been silly, imo.
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby Lilly » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:26 am

Carisa ITT wrote:
Lilly wrote:Unfortunately, the canon of ML vampire mythology was never fully -- or clearly -- spelled out. Even the "fact" cards that were handed out at events had some points of information that were at odds with what was later shown. As far as I'm concerned, if it wasn't discussed on screen, it wasn't canon -- no matter who was discussing it.

As for the speed thing, I did love Mick's quick exits, but the car chasing in the pilot was a bit extreme. The sexy vampire jumping thing -- not so much. But the sexy vampire sniffing thing? Heck, yes!!


So, do you have anything DISproving the virus theory?

As the way I see it, almost a year after the cancellation, stories are really bound to go any which way...

I don't see this as a theory to be proved or disproved. Two of the writers put forth an idea in an interview, but that concept was never developed or even alluded to onscreen. To me that’s no different than, for example, Alex saying “maybe vampirism is caused by an allergic reaction.” Interesting idea, but not canon. People can speculate all they want -- and we have gotten some marvelous fanfic this way. So, yes, stories can go any which way, but that doesn't make it part of the original mythos.
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby francis » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:27 am

librarian_7 wrote:If vampirism were a "virus"--which I think is fanon, not canon, it should be transmissable by more mundane means, should it not?
Lucky


Actually, if the virus was of the kind that "sleeps" in the DNA of the blood cells, it could only be transmitted by exchanging blood. There are certain viruses that work that way.
I don't care if it's canon or not, the virus vampirism works for some things and doesn't work for others. There is no way to make everything make sense without some kind of "magic" involved. Like the sleeping in a freezer. It would actually deteriorate their flesh even more, because the cells would go all mushy when thawed. You know what happens to meat when you freeze and thaw it repeatedly?
And how would a virus enhance their speed and the muscle power? And how do you explain the silvering eyes? Color draining - but where and how? And the fangs - where are they when they are not dropped? Can you see them in x-ray? And how do the normal teeth vanish? Because the fangs and the normal eye teeth can't be the same, as teeth cannot sharpen, they are no living objects. As are talons, it just makes no sense when the teen vampire grows talons that are much sharper than his normal fingernails within a second.

That said, I like the Moonlight mythology still much better than every other vamp myth, because they are more like people and less like monsters. They look cool and sexy when vamped out, not so much like bumpy horror masks. They can live in the sun for some time, which makes life easier. The freezers are cool even if they make no sense.
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby redwinter101 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:32 am

I confess at the outset that I know virtually nothing about vampire lore - so my judgements on ML are purely based on what I saw on screen. Also I haven't read Trevor's book, I don't know what actors, writers, crew have said elsewhere - as far as I am concerned, canon is the show. Pure and simple. With all its inconsistencies!

I, too, hated the super-speed thing in NSTAV but I agree that was an execution problem rather than a problem in principle.

I also thought the photography thing was a bit silly, but I did like that this was just one instance where they tried to deal with the myths and legends. Yes, sometimes it didn't work - but I liked the attempt!

I was one of the few who liked the "sniff the future" thing and that Mick could "see" the past by sniffing and I was sorry that disappeared - but diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

It seemed self-evident that vampirism was transmitted by blood - that, plus the "Cure" makes viewing it as a disease logical but it's speculation, not canon. You could just as easily say it is a magical curse held in the blood and there is nothing in canon to contradict you. Personally I liked the lack of mysticism in the series - it was a refreshing change.

As for the bed thing - Mick made it sound as though something terrible would befall him if he slept in a bed! That, too, seemed silly. Fine, they needed cold to rest but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have been able to lie down in a bed for a few hours!

I loved the pale eyes; I thought the fangs were fine; I agree with SS that the make-up got unnecessarily extreme as the show progressed. For example, I loved the half-vamp-out that Mick did twice in Click (with Leo and Abbott).

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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby Luxe de Luxe » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:32 am

good topic Kelly. I haven't read everyone else's responses yet, will do that after I've replied. For mine, in general I liked the way Moonlight's vampires were presented. I liked the fact that they could go out in daylight (going poof into a pile of dust if a ray of sunlight hit a formerly human body just never made sense to me. Same with staking.)

However, the freezers were just stupid. What did vamps do in Josef's time? Nah, modern vamps would definitely be on posturepedic mattresses I reckon.

Not eating made sense. Their digestive systems would be rejigged to only operate on blood so wouldn't have been able to handle solid food.

Am now heading back to read what everyone else said.
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby francis » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:42 am

Staking is another thing that makes not much sense from a scientific POV, but is a rather nice plot device that I really loved. Especially as it was only paralyzing. Lots of possibilities on that front.

That silver is poisonous for vamps makes them less invincible and thus gives perfect opportunity to torture or kill a vampire and makes for good plot. I wonder why Mick didn't take that big scimitar with him to confront Lola. It was totally good luck that she fell into her own silver bath.

I agree with redwinter that the vamp make up went a bit overboard. The pasty look of Josef and Mick in episode 13 didn't really work for me. I loved the silver eyes and pointy fangs though.
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby allegrita » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:07 am

The thing I loved most of all regarding the Moonlight vamps was the fact that vampirism was treated as a physiological condition. There was nothing religious about it at all. No soul, no damnation, no curse. What a refreshing change!

The notion has always annoyed me that, through no fault of one's own, one can be damned simply because something terrible happens to one. Isn't it bad enough that the victim of a terrible event (say, your wife turns you into a vampire on your wedding night, just to pull a random example out of the air) must suffer through a lifetime of reaction to that trauma? Why must the poor victim must also lose his soul?! Humbug, I say. Vampirism as a physiological condition, for whatever reason, works perfectly for me. I love it. Humanistic vamps. Thank you, Trevor and Ron, for that!

And in homage to grace and Fleur, I will glory in my own shallowness and say that I absolutely love the half-vamp look as evidenced in Click. Mick with those baby fangs... oh, come to mama, sweetheart. :hug: :hearts: :heart: :thud: :drool:
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby wpgrace » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:11 am

francis wrote: There is no way to make everything make sense without some kind of "magic" involved. Like the sleeping in a freezer. It would actually deteriorate their flesh even more, because the cells would go all mushy when thawed. You know what happens to meat when you freeze and thaw it repeatedly?



Yeah francis, I agree that their trying to "scientifically" explain the vamp thing just has to revert at some point to "magic" cause in the end the science doesn't hold up... but Jeezuz girlfriend! What a buzz-kill, not to mention stomach-turner, that particular sentence is!!!! OUR beautiful Mick all mushy and squishy!!! I TOTALLY blame you for the image now in my head...!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!! :devil:
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby wpgrace » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:16 am

redwinter101 wrote:
As for the bed thing - Mick made it sound as though something terrible would befall him if he slept in a bed! That, too, seemed silly. Fine, they needed cold to rest but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have been able to lie down in a bed for a few hours!

Red



ITA Red AND Alle... and yeah, I think the terrible thing to which he alluded is called S*E*X.

And Alle, embrace the shallow honey! Fleur and I have and we haven't turned into pumpkins!!!!
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby Phoenix » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:38 pm

Like: the fact that the live among us. Even when fully vamped-out, they are recognizably human. That they can go out in the sunlight without bursting into flames. That stakes only paralyze. That they don't necessarily kill their "dinner". The lack of religious dogma usually connected with vampires. Mick with fangs, but otherwise not vamped-out. :thud:



Dislike: the freezer, (although it beats a coffin). The associated lack-of-bed issue. The eternal-teenager vamp, (because that just didn't work on so many levels).
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby Kelly » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:46 pm

Phoenix wrote:Like: the fact that the live among us. Even when fully vamped-out, they are recognizably human. That they can go out in the sunlight without bursting into flames. That stakes only paralyze. That they don't necessarily kill their "dinner". The lack of religious dogma usually connected with vampires. Mick with fangs, but otherwise not vamped-out. :thud:



Dislike: the freezer, (although it beats a coffin). The associated lack-of-bed issue. The eternal-teenager vamp, (because that just didn't work on so many levels).

I'm totally with you on the teenage vamp...I mean, I think once he became a vampire his face would have cleared up :snicker:
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby Josefismysire » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:01 pm

Kelly wrote:
Phoenix wrote:Like: the fact that the live among us. Even when fully vamped-out, they are recognizably human. That they can go out in the sunlight without bursting into flames. That stakes only paralyze. That they don't necessarily kill their "dinner". The lack of religious dogma usually connected with vampires. Mick with fangs, but otherwise not vamped-out. :thud:



Dislike: the freezer, (although it beats a coffin). The associated lack-of-bed issue. The eternal-teenager vamp, (because that just didn't work on so many levels).

I'm totally with you on the teenage vamp...I mean, I think once he became a vampire his face would have cleared up :snicker:


Yep. That little discrepancy bothered me too..and the whole idea that yes, you would have a young body for eternity but your mind would grow and develop and, to some degree, you would "out grow" your hormonal rages (since that was what the writers based his killing spree on..not being a sociopath..) :confused2:

I'm probably going to get tomatoes thrown at me for this one..but the "age" thing bothered me a little with Josef too. Yes, he has the eternal body of a 25 year old, but the mind and experiences of someone much, MUCH older..he may want to surround himself with young, beautiful, vital woman in their early to mid-twenties (as freshies..as food) but I have trouble thinking that he would actually have meaningful, deep, philosophical discussions with such a young person and be so enamored that he would want to marry/turn them..ie Sarah. She was only 21 years old and very pampered, sheltered. I had difficulty seeing the overwhelming attraction there, honestly. Even though I didn't feel the chemistry between Josef and Simone, I could understand the connection better...she seemed a little older (late 20s) and a career woman. More intellectually stimulating for Josef, I would think...

And, I liked the freezers. Thought it was a cool twist (pun intended) on the whole coffin thing. I wouldn't have minded a pillow in there, though..for comfort's sake! :snicker:
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby Luxe de Luxe » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:46 pm

I agree wholeheartedly about Josef JIMS. I kept thinking the same thing, 400yr old man would definitely want to be surrounded by beauty, but he'd want a conversation with someone who had some life experience.

Freezers? I agree with whoever else it was who said that the thawing process every morning would be a bitch! They'd be so frozen solid they wouldn't be able to lift an arm to raise the lid of their freezer! Important appendages might snap off! Imagine that.
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby PNWgal » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:30 pm

Actual quote from my man: "For a guy that shouldn't be in the sunlight, he's sure in it a lot."

That's about the ONLY problem I had with Moonlight vampires. It totally turned my vampire protocol in its head - but after I got used to the idea, I could live with it.

I found myself nodding along as I was reading Phee's likes...I REALLY liked the only ones that saw vampires as monsters were the vampires themselves (read: Mick). I also agree with Red: I liked the "smell the past, glimpse the future" thing and wished they had expanded on the future part of it more.

And - I just really liked the fangs. They were more realistic-looking (and yes, I realize the ridiculousness of that statement) than I've seen in other shows - and well...shoot...Mick and Josef were just HOT with that "hint-o-fang" look!
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Re: Moonlight Vampires -- what did you like/dislike about them?

Postby Josefismysire » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:54 pm

PNWgal wrote:And - I just really liked the fangs. They were more realistic-looking (and yes, I realize the ridiculousness of that statement) than I've seen in other shows - and well...shoot...Mick and Josef were just HOT with that "hint-o-fang" look!


Oh YEAH!! Absolutely SPOT ON!! Their fangs were just the HOTTEST thing going!! Very realistic..very very believable. The best part of the whole get-up, imo!! :cheer:

I read the Twilight saga..saw the movie..RP was great in it..but with every page of every book I kept looking for the bleeping fangs!!!! What the heck is a vampire without his blooming fangs?? :confused2: :confused2:
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